An Ceann Comhairle: The Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business has completed its consideration of the Memorandum of Understanding for a framework of co-operation between the Government of Ireland and the Government of the State of Israel in the field of industrial, scientific and technological development, copies of which were laid before Dáil Éireann on 25 November 1999.

Native Americans.

1. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the requests, if any, the National Millennium Committee had regarding the issuing of an apology to native Americans for any role Irish immigrants to the United States played in their subjugation; if financial support was sought for community projects for native Americans; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7057/00]

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. S. Brennan): The role of the National Millennium Committee is to advise the Government on projects which, in its view, would be appropriate to celebrating the new millennium. More than 2,000 proposals, suggestions and ideas as to how millennium funds might be allocated have been received by the millennium committee.

I am not aware of an application in respect of the matter raised by the Deputy or of financial support being sought for community projects for native Americans. However, any such proposals could be submitted for consideration by the millennium committee as it finalises its recommendations. I have instructed the Millennium Office to contact the Deputy's office to find out the details on this matter for the next meeting of the millennium committee.

Mr. Sargent: I welcome the contact with the Minister of State's office, though I understood there had been communication before now. Given the imminent departure of so many Ministers to the United States for St. Patrick's Day, will he and his colleagues consider the misfortunes of native Americans who suffered at the hands of many Irish people who were in the American Army in the 1880s and beyond, following incidents such as the massacre at Wounded Knee in South Dakota? Does he agree that as a millennium gesture of reconciliation an apology might be appropriate at the very least? That could be done next week.

Mr. S. Brennan: This matter was the subject of a recent question to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The Minister's response was to the effect that he was not aware of any developments or circumstances which would indicate that a statement of this nature would be appropriate or helpful at this time. He went on to say that there were no requests to provide support to native American projects under consideration in his Department.

I do not think it is clear that it is a matter for the Irish Government to take an initiative in this area; it might be a matter for the Irish-American community to raise such issues.

Mr. Sargent: I do not propose to speak on behalf of the Irish-American community, but I ask the Minister of State to take into account the fact that in the 1840s native Americans gave assistance to people in Ireland. That may or may not have been considered appropriate at the time, but it was still very welcome. Given that the world has become smaller thanks to technology, it is all the more important that that reconciliation be valued and that a gesture be made. I ask him to consider this matter again. There are many documented instances of massacres where Irish people carried out the most brutal policies, though they might not have been involved in making those policies. If the Minister of State wants historical information I will provide it and, having done so, would he then reconsider the matter of an apology? More tangible assistance could also be considered, such as the drug or drink addiction programmes operating with the co-operation of Father McGuckian of the pioneers in Dublin. If the Minister of State wants neutral and unbiased information he could contact Father McGuckian in the pioneer headquarters in Sheriff Street.

Mr. S. Brennan: I do not doubt the Deputy's sincerity or knowledge on this matter, though I presume that knowledge is not widely shared in the House. It is on record that coming up to the Famine of the 1840s the Choctaw tribe donated £100-----

Mr. Sargent: And corn.

Mr. S. Brennan: -----at a time when they themselves were starving. That was a unique gesture to a faraway land. That is the only connection the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of the Taoiseach have been able to track down. I do not think it is appropriate for the millennium committee to become involved in this, but I will bring this debate and the Deputy's comments to the attention of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. This has not, however, been raised in any formal sense with the Government and would probably be a matter for the Irish-American community, in the first instance, to bring to our attention formally.

National Stadium.

2. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if the Government has made an offer to the FAI for loss of revenue from the sale of corporate boxes and seats if it agrees to abandon its plan to build a stadium and settle for a tenancy in the national stadium; and if the compensation covers the total income loss from the sale of corporate boxes and seats for a ten year period at an estimated value of £40 million. [6939/00]

Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Dr. McDaid): The Deputy asked if an offer has been made to the FAI for loss of revenue from the sale of corporate boxes and seats if it agrees to abandon its plan to build a stadium and settle for a tenancy in the national stadium. The answer to this question is no.

Mr. Allen: The Minister may not have been at the meeting on Monday between the Taoiseach and senior FAI officials. The newspapers reported that an enhanced offer was made to the FAI so that it could be encouraged to abandon its plans for the development of Eircom Park. Will the Minister confirm if that meeting took place? If it did, why did he, as Minister with responsibility for sport, not attend it?

Dr. McDaid: The meeting was arranged at very short notice and I had a prearranged meeting in Mountmellick on Monday. I do not have the powers of bilocation.

The Taoiseach has always indicated he wanted to meet the FAI and the FAI has always indicated that it wanted to meet him. Two other meetings were arranged at the behest of the FAI, but because of diary problems they could not go ahead. Consequently this meeting was arranged at short notice. We pointed out that it is the Government's wish and intention that the FAI should come on board and we felt it would be beneficial to both the Government and the FAI to work together along these lines. The Taoiseach pointed out the benefits to the FAI. However, he also pointed out to the FAI that it is all right for the Government to build a national stadium just as it is for any organisation to build a stadium. While these views were clearly outlined, the FAI indicated at the conclusion of the meeting that, while it appreciated the decision, it intended to build its own stadium.

Mr. Allen: Can I take it from the Minister's response that an offer was not made to the FAI to encourage it to abandon its plans for the Eircom Stadium and that press reports of such an offer, which were leaked to undermine the credibility of senior officers of the FAI, are incorrect? Is it not strange that the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation with responsibility for the capital programme for sport did not attend a meeting concerning a project costing between £280 million and £0.5 billion when completed? Will the Minister agree the public would be correct in assuming that the Taoiseach is calling the shots and pulling the strings, that he has no input into the project and that it is being said privately that he is opposed to the project because it will consume all the capital allocation available for sport in future?

Dr. McDaid: This meeting was arranged at very short notice and two previous meetings were cancelled at the request of the FAI. The Deputy's argument is a spurious one.

Mr. Allen: Was an offer made or is the report in The Examiner incorrect?

Dr. McDaid: The Department of the Taoiseach is handling the stadium issue and shortly after the Taoiseach returns from the United States the development committee will be set up and appointments will be made. An offer was not made to the FAI. The Taoiseach reiterated the previous offer that as many League of Ireland clubs as possible would be helped. Last year I helped six League of Ireland soccer clubs to the tune of £4 million and I will continue to help them in the coming year. I helped six more clubs than the Minister helped during his entire period in office.

Mr. Allen: We are not here to trade punches in relation to what we did or did not do. Will the Minister with responsibility for sport appeal to his Government colleagues to call off the propaganda war and the war of attrition against senior officials----

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy must ask a question.

Mr. Allen: I am asking the Minister to ask his Government colleagues to call off the propaganda war and the war of attrition against senior officials of an independent sporting body. Will he also speak to the Minister for Defence who is now using unpublished Department of Defence documents to submit a planning objection to Eircom Stadium? As this is against the best interests of sport, will the Minister use his influence to stop this phoney propaganda war?

Dr. McDaid: There is not a war of attrition between the Taoiseach, the FAI and me. I met the FAI on a number of social occasions. I attended functions and matches, together with the Taoiseach, in recent weeks and there is not a war of attrition between the Government and the FAI.

I read an article in this morning's newspaper stating, "Defence Minister declares war on stadium plan". This is total sensationalism. The Department of Defence has to lodge an objection in relation to Baldonnel on a technical basis. It is nothing more than that.

Mr. Allen: Based on a report which has not been published.

Dr. McDaid: This objection must be lodged and the Minister for Defence will meet with the FAI next week to go through the details of the technical objection.

3. Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will clarify his statement issued to a newspaper (details supplied) on 11 February, 2000 that his inclination is for self-regulation of accommodation by the industry itself rather than by officialdom; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7048/00]

Dr. McDaid: Like my predecessors, I have been lobbied to introduce a mandatory licensing system for the bed and breakfast sector. Like my predecessors, I have concluded that, in order to be effective, such a system would require a significant diversion of resources away from developing the tourism industry towards policing and administration. There is not any evidence to suggest the transfer of the current voluntary system to a mandatory basis would have any appreciable impact on accommodation standards over and above that currently brought about by market forces.

The impressive expansion of tourist accommodation over the past decade has resulted in increased competition and higher standards across all categories, not least in the bed and breakfast sector. In my recent contributions to this debate, I made the point that, rather than go down the road of mandatory registration of the bed and breakfast sector, it would be better to pursue a strategy in which the industry led in the determination of standards and quality for the bed and breakfast sector, which has matured and progressed beyond all recognition over the past decade. Such an approach had been envisaged as far back as 1994 in the A.D. Little Review of Bord Fáilte.

Furthermore, I have always contended that, due to the substantial increase in the volume and range of accommodation in recent years, there is a greater choice available to tourists, thus allowing market forces to weed out accommodation which is not of a sufficiently high standard. The recent emphasis by bed and breakfast providers on developing their own marketing capability will result in greater transparency for the consumer as to the quality of individual bed and breakfasts and the services they provide. This process will be further enhanced by the advent of the Internet and e-commerce, and the marketing and retail opportunities offered therein, directly in the marketplace, to both bed and breakfast providers and their consumer market at home and abroad. In short, there have been major changes in the bed and breakfast sector itself, in the marketplace and in consumer protection, safety regulation, etc. since the introduction of the concept of approval in its current form. The time has now come to consider a more appropriate system for a modern, sophisticated accommodation sector.

The current position with regard to approval of bed and breakfast accommodation is that, following a recommendation contained in the A.D. Little Review of Bord Failte, the approval and inspection functions were outsourced to recognised self-regulatory bodies within the industry itself. Currently, three separate companies carry out these functions for different sections of the bed and breakfast sector. Having reviewed these arrangements, Bord Fáilte has launched a tender process for the award of the new contract for inspection and approval. Bord Fáilte currently has the role of ensuring that appropriate standards are set for the industry.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: The reason I put down the question is that there is confusion in the approved sector in relation to a statement made by the Minister on 11 February repeating what he said here this afternoon. The sector needs to know who, if anyone, will regulate the product. There was an advertisement in the newspaper some time ago inviting tenders from a body to approve the town and country homes sector and the farmhouse sector. There was a separate advertisement for the registration of hotels and guesthouses. This is all tied up with the proposal from Government that rates will be levied on the bed and breakfast sector. A worrying aspect is that the proposed levies on the bed and breakfast sector is contributing to the decline in the numbers applying for registration or approval. Will the Minister clarify who will regulate the product and will he go ahead with the tendering process because there is confusion in the sector regarding the matter?

Dr. McDaid: The answer is "yes" in the interim. We have advertised for continual approval and recognition as was the case heretofore. Given the quality and amount of accommodation available in the past ten years, I believe the consumer is the best regulator. This country has high quality accommodation and visitors coming here are very discerning. As I pointed out previously, one dissatisfied customer can undo the work of 20 satisfied customers. One can be guaranteed that 95% of dissatisfied customers will not return. Therefore, the marketplace will dictate in future.

The consumer is the best regulator because of the competition that exists in the whole area. The quality of the accommodation is far superior to that which was available prior to regulation and approval. I do not say that just because it is my view. I will meet the different people concerned and will discuss the issue with them. Some people believe there should be independent approval systems.

The Deputy also raised the rates system. That is completely different for bed and breakfast accommodation and is a matter on which I have had many representations recently. The time has come to redefine what is meant by a bed and breakfast. It is no longer in accordance with the bed and breakfast we had previously. I am of the view that a bed and breakfast has somewhere between a minimum of three rooms and a maximum of five. Most of those establishments which are regarded as bed and breakfasts are small guesthouses and small hotels.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: I agree with the Minister but what people want is a level playing pitch. Some bed and breakfasts are regulated and approved while others are not. The term bed and breakfast is confused. In the traditional bed and breakfast the owner is there to meet the guests. Does the Minister agree we must protect that sector?

Dr. McDaid: I agree that sector must be protected. The bed and breakfast sector, to use a pun, has been the bedrock on which the entire tourism industry started. That sector has to be redefined and we must be careful to have an approval system. The question of whether the consumer and market forces should dictate or whether the independent approvals should continue is open for discussion. This evening I will meet a certain section of that-----

An Ceann Comhairle: We must move on to Question No. 4.

4. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the policy initiatives, if any, he will take to reverse the alarming drop in tourism figures from the United Kingdom and parts of Europe.

Mr. McDaid: Although tourism business from Britain to Ireland remained buoyant in 1999, Bord Fáilte expects that the holiday segment will be down on previous year figures for the first time since 1992.

As I said in my recent address at the annual conference of the Irish Hotels Federation, our most important tourism source market, the UK, may be showing signs of fatigue in terms of pure holiday numbers, despite the strength of sterling and an absence of violence in Northern Ireland. While we have to await the final figures for 1999, preliminary indications are that we may be experiencing a peak in our current fashionability in Britain at the same time as many newer and competitively-priced alternative holiday options are opening up from that market. Bord Fáilte is currently reviewing the British market to try to get to grips with any fundamental underlying changes and to see what marketing repositioning and revamp of packaging by the industry may be required in the future to maintain our strong place in this market. I am anxious that this work is completed as soon as possible.

In the case of continental Europe, which represents more than a quarter of our business, our overall market performance has been stagnant in recent years. while I acknowledge that we have been doing well in Italy and the Nordic countries, for example, this has not compensated for performance out of France and Germany - our two most important European source markets - where we had similar levels of visitor numbers and revenue earnings in 1999 as in 1995. Bord Fáilte has devised and is implementing a new three-year strategy for the German market. A formula simply must be found for doing better in continental Europe.

Bord Fáilte is also well advanced in a total review of Tourism Brand Ireland which was launched more than three years ago. This review involves a reappraisal of prospects in the individual markets, detailed research among consumers and ultimately the development of refined visual, communications and promotional material. Bord Fáilte is looking at the opportunities and challenges associated with the wider use of the Internet as a tool in tourism marketing and promotion. This exercise will build on experience with its own award-winning site, recent feedback from the industry and the growing importance of new media and new technology in the tourism business.

Under the National Development Plan, published in November 1999 in excess of £350 million will be available in public financial support for tourism marketing, training and product development over the period 2000 to 2006 to complement investment by the industry itself. This funding will facilitate a range of initiatives, including the creation of Ireland's first ever multi-annual tourism marketing fund, which will support the continued successful development of the tourism sector.

Mr. Allen: Will the Minister agree that the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear, notwithstanding the double advantage of peace in Northern Ireland and the strength of the sterling against the punt? Is he now admitting that the figures for the first time in many years from the UK and our main customers in Europe - Germany and Holland - will be either stagnant or show a reduction? Has the Minister and Bord Fáilte addressed the issues that may be affecting this trend? Has he considered our litter-strewn countryside and the difficulty in getting to the regions outside of Dublin? Is he aware that it takes four hours to get to Cork as opposed to three hours 12 months ago? Has he considered the issue of duty free sales? Given that the Minister said £350 million will be available I hope he is not depending on throwing money at the problem. Surely more thought should be given to the fundamental reasons our tourism market in the UK and for our main customers in Europe is entering a period of stagnation? The alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear in his Department and in Bord Fáilte.

Dr. McDaid: The figures are estimates taken by Bord Fáilte from approximately 10,000 people. This is far short of the 350,000 to 400,000 figures which the CSO take into consideration. The words "alarm bells" used by the Deputy are somewhat strong. I am certainly concerned about the figures. We have indicated that Bord Fáilte should keep its finger on the pulse and it has done so. That is the reason Bord Fáilte has been successful in maintaining the tourism market. The figures are a matter of concern given that we have peace in Northern Ireland and sterling has never been so much in our favour. Regardless of the question of access to the regions, litter and so on - which I will deal with later - we are an island economy and, as such, are vulnerable to any increase in price changes. Consequently I resist anything that has to do with increasing access or airport charges coming into this country. We would all agree that this success has been based on-----

An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister's time is up.

Mr. Allen: May I ask one question?

An Ceann Comhairle: Very quickly. I must apply the rules.

Mr. Allen: The Minister referred to one of the problems. He is now saying we are marketing and have been in recent months for this season. We do not know the statistics for last season. Therefore, we cannot market effectively. By the time we get the figures we will be into the tourist season. There is a major problem in planning and getting the statistics which are necessary for marketing. Will the Minister address that issue.

Dr. McDaid: Bord Fáilte is already marketing for 2001. For example, Ryanair has added eight continental destinations out of London. A person in Britain planning a weekend break who sees a flight to Milan costs £69 while one to Dublin costs £79 will certainly go to Milan. We must resist anything which would increase access fares or airport charges.

5. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if the regional operation programmes regarding area based partnerships have been finalised; and if he will ensure the area based approach will be continued in the new programmes. [6941/00]

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Mr. E. Ryan): The regional operational programmes under the national development plan are currently being drafted by the Department of Finance and I understand they will be finalised in the near future.

A special sub-programme on social inclusion will form an integral part of each of these regional operational programmes. More than £400 million has been allocated to my Department under the sub-programmes, which will be directed at activities currently carried out by the area based partnership companies and ADM supported community groups, the local drug task forces and the development groups of the young people's facilities and services fund. Actions will be supported under the social inclusion measures on the basis of integrated local action plans which will be drawn up in consultation with the director of community and enterprise and the city and county development boards.

Mr. Allen: It now seems the long-term strategic plan for 2000 to 2006 and the short-term plan for 2000 to 2003 will not be ready until the middle of this year. By the time they have been approved in Brussels and budgets allocated it will be September, at the earliest, before the plans are available for implementation. What arrangements are in place for interim funding for the partnerships until the funding from Brussels has been established? Can the Minister of State give some comfort to the partnerships who are losing confidence in the programme? Partnership staff are being headhunted by other organisations. Can the Minister of State guarantee that interim funding will be provided until the strategic plans are put into operation, which will not be until the end of this year?

Mr. E. Ryan: Last month I assured the House that there would not be a problem with regard to interim funding and I repeat that assurance. The Department of Finance is still negotiating the community support framework with the European Commission. Its operational programmes must be in line with the agreed community support framework and it is anticipated that the regional operational programmes will be finalised shortly when the community support framework has been agreed. This will be done in a matter of weeks rather than months.

I agree that the community support framework should be agreed as quickly as possible so that there is no lack of confidence in the partnerships. I assure the Deputy that interim funding will be provided if necessary.

Mr. Allen: What are the Minister of State's views on the area based approach as distinct from the social inclusion approach? How does he intend to deal with the matter of child care, low income families, smallholders and education and training? How many of the partnerships has he met since his appointment as Minister of State?

Mr. E. Ryan: My Department is responsible for community development, family support, youth services and services to the unemployed. Child care is not part of my responsibility. I have met three or four partnerships so far. I met the chairpersons of all the local drugs task forces last week and I have met a number of them in their own areas. I have also met the ADM-supported community groups. I am trying to meet as many groups as possible to see what they are doing and to find out how we can support them.

Air Transport.

6. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the input, if any, his Department had into the formulation of policy regarding the future of Aer Rianta in view of the fact that there is an onus on the State to facilitate the provision of frequent reliable and cost effective access to the country and to the regions. [6942/00]

Dr. McDaid: While overall responsibility for the formulation of air transport policy rests with my colleague, the Minister for Public Enterprise, my Department keeps in regular contact with her Department on such matters generally.

My Department has already conveyed detailed views to the Department of Public Enterprise on the future strategic direction of Aer Rianta in the context of tourism policy, and my officials have had discussions with their counterparts in the Department of Public Enterprise on the subject.

My view is that the priority requirement, from a tourism perspective, is the provision of necessary infrastructure and services at our main airports at the lowest possible cost consistent with safe commercial operations. Accordingly, Aer Rianta, the main provider of airport services in the State, has a critical role to play in this context. Competitive air access, to which Aer Rianta strategy has made a major contribution, has been of enormous importance in facilitating tourism growth to Ireland in recent years. Competitive access continues to be a critical element of tourism strategy for an island destination like Ireland. I look forward, therefore, to presenting my views on this subject, and on how Aer Rianta can continue to contribute to maximising Ireland's tourism potential, when the matter is raised in Government.

Mr. Allen: Recent Aer Rianta accounts show that Dublin Airport made a profit of £48 million in its operating year. Does the Minister agree that ownership of Dublin Airport is like a licence to print money? Does he agree that the profits from Dublin Airport should be used to reduce landing charges at regional airports and at Shannon and Cork airports, and to market the regions? Does he agree that if Shannon and Cork airports were sold, it is likely that the new owners would be driven by a desire for profit rather than an obligation to meet the needs of the region and that such an action would be a contradiction of the policies on providing low cost access to the regions and of their development? There appears to be contradictory thinking in Government circles.

Dr. McDaid: These matters should be dealt with by the Department of Public Enterprise. I have made my views known to Cabinet and no final decision has been made on this issue.

My position has always been that low access fares to Ireland are important. This policy has been proved successful in the past by airlines which have provided low access fares. Anything which disturbs this must be resisted, or at least considered in great detail.

In Tasmania, I learned that as a result of the privatisation of Hobart airport, airport charges rose and airlines stopped flying to Tasmania. I believe Quantas, which has a constitutional obligation to provide a service to the island is the only airline doing so. It has always been my policy to provide low access fares to Ireland and I will maintain that policy.

Mr. Allen: Does the Minister agree that selling our airports would be akin to selling our harbours and ports? They are a vital national asset and essential for the development of tourism and of the regions. Can the Minister assure the House that his views will prevail in Cabinet and that a very profitable State body will not be sold?

Dr. McDaid: This is a matter for the Government. Aer Rianta is a strategic national asset. This matter will be discussed at Cabinet in the near future and it is my job to ensure we continue to have low access fares because this policy has played a vital part in our success in the past. More than six million people now visit this island annually. Low access fares are a major factor.