Parliamentary Debates (Dáil and Seanad) 2001
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Chuaigh an Leas-Cheann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2.30 p.m.

___________

Prayer.

Official Engagements.

1. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his visit to Rome. [5559/01]

2. Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to Italy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5665/01]

3. Mr. Higgins (Dublin West) asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his attendance in Rome at the elevation to cardinal of Archbishop Desmond Connell. [5672/01]

The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together. I was pleased and honoured to accept Archbishop Connell's invitation and to head an official delegation attending the consistory in Rome on his appointment as cardinal. The delegation included my colleague, the Minister of State to the Government and at the Department of Environment and Local Government, Deputy Molloy, the Secretary General to the Government, Mr. Dermot McCarthy, the Ambassador to the Holy See, Mr. Eamon O'Tuathail and my Aide de Camp, Captain Gerard O'Grady.

On the morning of 21 February I attended the consistory in St. Peter's Square for the creation of the 44 new cardinals followed by lunch hosted by the rector, Monsignor John Fleming, in honour of Cardinal Connell at the Pontifical Irish College. That afternoon I made courtesy calls on the newly elevated Cardinal Murphy O'Connor of London, Cardinal Egan of New York and Cardinal McCarrick of Newark.

The same evening I hosted a reception at Villa Spada, Embassy of Ireland to the Holy See in honour of Cardinal Connell. Guests included Cardinal Connell's family, Cardinal Daly and Archbishop Brady. I take this opportunity to put on record my deep appreciation to the Vatican for the courtesies extended to me and the other members of the delegation while there. It is a singular honour for Ireland and in particular, Dublin, to have our own cardinal after more than 115 years.

Mr. Quinn: How would the Taoiseach characterise relationships between the Government and the head of the Roman Catholic Church and the heads of other Christian and religious denominations in the State?

The Taoiseach: They are excellent in terms of all the churches. I have regular meetings with them, as I am sure do other politicians, and have very good relations with them. In recent years I have had contact with Cardinal Daly, who takes a keen interest in Northern matters, and Archbishop Brady who is always extremely helpful. They are very courteous. I also have contacts, though not a great many, on other matters, and the same goes for the other churches which regularly call, particularly when there are new appointments. It can honestly be said that relations are good.

Mr. Noonan: In the course of his visit to Rome did the Taoiseach hold any bilateral meetings with members of the Italian Government or did he avail of the opportunity to meet Fianna Fáil's political allies in the European Parliament, the Italian neo-fascist Alleanza Nazionale?

The Taoiseach: No.

Mr. Noonan: He met them all.

Mr. McCormack: Silence is golden.

The Taoiseach: I said "No".

Official Meetings and Engagements.

4. Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government and the Northern parties in relation to the peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5666/01]

5. Mr. Higgins (Dublin West) asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland. [5674/01]

6. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the outcome of his meeting with a delegation from the SDLP on 22 February 2001; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6021/01]

8. Mr. Currie asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent contacts with the British Prime Minister and Northern political leaders on the situation in Northern Ireland. [6113/01]

9. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his address to the National Assembly for Wales and his meeting with Welsh political leaders. [6597/01]

10. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the outcome of his meeting on 28 February 2001 with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair and if he will give his assessment of the prospects for political development in Northern Ireland. [6598/01]

11. Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the proposed agenda for his planned meeting on 15 March 2001 with President Bush; the other official engagements he will undertake during his visit to the United States; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6600/01]

12. Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting on 28 February 2001 with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair. [6667/01]

13. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government and the Northern Ireland political parties regarding the peace process. [6699/01]

14. Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent discussions and meetings with the British Government and the Northern parties in relation to the peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6720/01]

15. Mr. Higgins (Dublin West) asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his address to the Welsh Assembly. [6818/01]

16. Mr. Higgins (Dublin West) asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his discussions with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair. [6819/01]

17. Mr. Higgins (Dublin West) asked the Taoiseach the plans he has for his visit to the United States around St. Patrick's Day. [6820/01]

18. Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting in London with the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6935/01]

19. Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to Wales; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6936/01]

20. Mr. Currie asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meetings with the British Prime Minister and other political leaders on the position in Northern Ireland. [6937/01]

The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 20, inclusive, together.

I addressed the National Assembly in Wales on 1 March, the day dedicated to the patron saint of Wales, St. David, and was very warmly received. My address focused on the historic and cultural links between Ireland and Wales and the opportunities now emerging to significantly enhance our friendship and relationship in the context of devolution and the institutional arrangements of the Good Friday Agreement.

During my visit, I also met the First Minister of the National Assembly for Wales, Mr. Rhodri Morgan, and the Secretary of State for Wales, Mr. Paul Murphy, and gave a keynote speech at a forum on "Wales, Europe and the World", sponsored by the First Minister. Copies of both my speeches have been placed in the Oireachtas Library.

Unfortunately, I was forced to cut short my visit to Wales, cancelling a number of social engagements due to the outbreak of foot and mouth disease. Nevertheless, the visit was successful and it was greatly appreciated by our Welsh hosts that I fulfilled the main planned engagements. In the light of the discussions during my visit, I look forward to a significant strengthening of relations between Ireland and Wales.

Intensive contacts between the pro-Agreement parties and both Governments have continued over recent weeks in an effort to overcome the current difficulties. On 22 February I met the UUP, the SDLP and Sinn Féin in Government Buildings for a series of meetings. On Wednesday last I met the Prime Minister Mr. Blair in Downing Street.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Brian Cowen, also met the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Dr. John Reid, and last week had a series of meetings in Washington, including with US Vice-President, Mr. Dick Cheney, Secretary of State, Mr. Colin Powell, and National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, to review progress.

We hope we can find a way of overcoming the present difficulties and we will continue to do everything we can over the coming period to achieve a positive outcome.

I take this opportunity to condemn in the strongest terms the weekend bombing in London. Those responsible have absolutely no regard for the expressed will of the people of Ireland, North and South, and have nothing to offer except misery and grief. Such attacks are totally counter-productive and only serve to increase our determination to secure a lasting peace.

The programme for my visit to the United States for the St. Patrick's Day period has not yet been fully finalised. However, on current plans I will arrive in Washington on 15 March. While in Washington, I will attend a lunch hosted by Speaker Hastert on Capitol Hill, which I understand will be attended by President Bush. I will also attend an America-Ireland Fund dinner and meet the Ireland-America Economic Advisory Committee. It is hoped the Shamrock Ceremony will take place in the White House and that will entail a private meeting with the President.

I look forward to meeting President Bush and members of his Administration in the course of my visit and to my discussions with them and other senior political figures.

Mr. Noonan: Will the Taoiseach give information on the possibility of the British Prime Minister being in Northern Ireland later this week, and the event clashing with a proposed trip planned by the Taoiseach to Japan? Will the Taoiseach reflect on this and tell us the arrangements?

The Taoiseach: The position is still fluid to say the least. We have said to the parties in the North, and it has been agreed between the two Governments for some considerable time, that the current discussions cannot go on indefinitely and there is pressure on all sides to reach an agreement. We all recognise that the long-term future and stability of the Agreement may be at stake. The pro Agreement parties want to overcome the difficulties which pose a threat to it and that is what we have been trying to do for the last seven weeks. Policing is an important part of the discussions but it is not the only issue. It is also vital that we address decommissioning and demilitarisation as well as the stability of the institutions. We cannot be deflected from that in the discussions and we hope to be in touch with the other parties in coming days.

There are meetings today among those other parties to enable them to reach primary positions. My four negotiating officials have been in the United Kingdom since yesterday and had discussions in Downing Street into the early hours of this morning and again today. They will proceed from there around now to Belfast for more discussions with the parties, some of which are meeting themselves tonight, so it will be tomorrow before we can make any call about this. Needless to say, the other parties would like to make that call and if that involves round table talks I will have to be there but we will have to wait and see.

Mr. Noonan: Does the Government have a policy on the present RUC recruitment campaign? Is it the Government's view that it is inappropriate to proceed with this recruitment campaign in advance of agreement on policing in Northern Ireland?

The Taoiseach: The Government would like to have had all these issues tied down in advance. That would have been preferable but that said, I understand the difficulties of the RUC Chief Constable who must try to implement most of the Patten reforms within his organisation. It is sometimes forgotten that most of the Patten reforms are good policing matters and that there are no differences about them. The vast majority of them are agreed and the Chief Constable saw fit to go ahead with this. It was not with our agreement, which he did not need, but it was not the way we would have done things. That said, we have not made a big issue of it either. The crucial period will come in the autumn when recruitment and a new training programme take place. There will be considerable difficulties at that stage if the policing issue is not resolved. Dilemmas may be caused for many people then and I have made that clear to all sides. I say this based on the discussions I have had with everyone and on their considered views on the matter. I understand why they have gone ahead with recruitment and why application forms have been sent out to all sides of the community, but reaching the bottom line will be another issue. What is done is done but the crucial period will come in the autumn as policing will have to be tied down at that stage. Otherwise the situation will be very difficult for everyone.

Mr. Higgins (Dublin West): One effect of the Taoiseach taking a wide range of questions is that it is hard to get coherence at Question Time. I wish to raise a different matter.

When the Taoiseach visits the United States will he break with the usual obsequious position adopted by Irish Governments towards Washington and raise with President Bush his condemnation of the continued bombing of Iraq by Britain and the United States? Will he raise the question of the economic sanctions against Iraq and point out to President Bush that it is not the Saddam Hussein dictatorship which is suffering as a result of these sanctions but the millions of innocent men, women and children of the Iraqi population who are suffering appallingly in terms of a breakdown of the health care system and infrastructure because no materials, spare parts or medicines can be brought into the country? Will he ask President Bush to stop the sanctions regime and to reverse a situation which has caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi people, particularly children? Finally, will the Taoiseach call on President Bush, in the course of his visit, to end the collective punishment against an innocent population caused by a dispute between regimes and governments?

The Taoiseach: Irish Government representatives at these occasions have never been slow to raise issues of contention in a civilised and calm way. I have done so myself over a number of years, as have my predecessors. We discussed the issue of sanctions with former President Clinton on a number of occasions in the last few years. The issue will be brought forward again. The Minister, Deputy Cowen, raised it last week with all the people he met, including Vice-President Cheney and Ms Rice, and made the Irish view clear. We are also taking a forward position in the Security Council on the sanctions issue.

Two issues arise from the Deputy's remarks. On the one hand, Saddam Hussein maintains deaf ears to what the rest of the world says about weapons of mass destruction, weapons that affect his own people as well as others. On the other hand, it is true that ordinary citizens, as always, bear the brunt of war and make all the sacrifices, rather than Saddam Hussein. Both issues are important and we will take the opportunity to raise them again. With regard to the bombing, the Minister, Deputy Cowen, last week raised the rationale for these events. As always in these meetings, the American side is put and we have a chance to give our views.

Mr. Quinn: I have a number of questions for the Taoiseach since he replied to 16 questions together. With regard to his visit to Wales, is the Taoiseach satisfied that the numerical composition of the assembly representation in the British and Irish Inter-Parliamentary Group, as it is now known, is satisfactory, having regard to the numbers that come from Westminster, Leinster House and the other assemblies? Does the numerical composition reflect what was envisaged in the Good Friday Agreement? I read the Taoiseach's speech to the Welsh Assembly. Does he believe he gave good example by going to Wales last week when the Government was asking everybody not to visit there unless it was essential?

I have two questions regarding Prime Minister Blair. Did the Taoiseach, when he met the Prime Minister on Wednesday last week, raise with him the concerns of this Administration about the apparent laxity with which British authorities are dealing with the foot and mouth outbreak, having regard to the widespread epidemic nature of its occurrence on the island of Britain? If so, what was his response? Second, the Taoiseach might recall that on Question Time last Wednesday, we spoke about the possibility of the British Government giving an indication that it would be willing to give a commitment to hold substantial inquiries into the murders of Pat Finucane, Mr. Hamill and Rosemary Nelson and that such a commitment might, in the context of making progress on these matters, lead to a resolution of the impasse on policing. Will the Taoiseach indicate if he raised that matter with the Prime Minister and, if so, what was the Prime Minister's response?

Finally, will the Taoiseach confirm something I understood him to indicate to Deputy Noonan? Did he say that if progress was made later this week which would result in round table talks taking place he would attend them and defer his visit to Japan?

The Taoiseach: The interparliamentary tier is an issue which must be kept under review. With the exception of the Ulster Unionist Party I am satisfied that things are up and running. One of the difficulties is the small number of members in the devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales. There are 60 members in Wales who have difficulties and commitments but who wish to play a useful role. A number of members of the Welsh Assembly are Irish born or are of Irish parentage, most of whom wish to play an active role and did so at the meeting in Killarney last week. We have to keep this issue under review to ensure the system works well. However, so far so good and the Welsh and Scottish representatives were happy to be in Killarney.

I was right to go to Wales. I restricted my movements in the five or six hours I spent there and did not come across too much grass or visit any farms. Not to go would have been an insult to the Welsh. St. David's Day is important to them and this was the first occasion on which a foreign leader addressed the Assembly. That was important for them and they had organised an important conference on business and the future of Wales in Europe. I did not attend social events but the other two events were important. A decision not to attend might have been misunderstood.

The only issue in which the Welsh media was interested was why Wales could not play its rugby match. All but two of the questions I was asked concerned the reason we could not play the match. It was clear where the Welsh media's priority lay. Its concern was not just about the Irish crowds but about playing the rugby match.

The same applies in the case of Cheltenham. I do not understand why the festival is still going ahead. I have raised these issues with the Prime Minister on a number of occasions in the past two weeks. I hope the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development will have the opportunity of talking to the British Minister for Agriculture later today. I have raised Cheltenham and other issues with Prime Minister Blair so we can understand the situation.

The Prime Minister recently told me that all reported cases in the UK are linked to the original farm. There have been reports about this issue and I thought from some of the reports in the English media that there were other cases not directly related to that farm. I heard such reports yesterday. However, the Prime Minister stated that is not so and that all cases, up to this morning's case, are directly related to the same large farm.

I have stated our views to the Prime Minister and given him the update I received from the interdepartmental group today. I have also asked that the British Minister for Agriculture speak to our Minister, Deputy Walsh. They know our views on this matter.

Last Wednesday we discussed the SDLP's views on progress in the Nelson, Hamill and Finucane inquiries and its opinion that such progress would assist the overall position. The answers and the progress we have got on that are still not satisfactory. We have still not received commitments. Sometimes there is a misunderstanding in that people think all cases are the same. These are landmark cases and events which have happened over the years and they are not all the same. They are different cases which are deeply ingrained in Northern Nationalists and republicans. They will not go away and we must continue to address them. They are similar in that they feed directly into the policing issue, but they are not similar in other aspects. We will continue to state our position on those cases.

Mr. Currie: Does the Taoiseach agree the sentiments he has expressed are different from the sentiments he expressed previously in this House because the emphasis is now on a process rather than a conclusive final settlement? Perhaps he would elaborate on that. Has he analysed a speech given in south Armagh by a leading member of the IRA, Brian Keenan, which was initially reported in a Boston newspaper and then picked up by newspapers here? Is he aware of similar sentiments expressed by leading republicans which have not been reported, as far as I am aware, in the national press? If he has analysed those sentiments as expressed, is he still as confident as previously that it is the IRA's intention to put its weaponry beyond use and the intention of Sinn Féin in any circumstances to call on young Nationalists and republicans to join the new police service?

The Taoiseach: What I am saying now is not different from what I said last week, namely, that I did not see us being able to tie down all these areas prior to an election because we are speeding into that. There are clear understandings in all the discussions we have had over the past seven weeks or so. Everyone must agree to those issues and sign up to them in an interrelated way. It would be nicer, easier and, from a negotiating point of view, safer to conclude totally on the policing issue and move on. However, that is not a likely possibility this side of an election unless things change dramatically in the next 48 or 72 hours and I do not see that happening. I do not want to mislead the House on that issue.

I saw the comments attributed to senior republican figures in recent days. Whatever about the comments of individuals from time to time, the leadership of Sinn Féin has brought the republican movement to participate in democratic politics by signing up to the Good Friday Agreement and in all the discussions we have had since then. It is still doing so in all the discussions we are having to implement fully all aspects of the agreement. I have noted the strong condemnation made on Sunday and yesterday by a number of Sinn Féin leaders, including Mr. Kelly, Mr. McGuinness and others, of the bombing of the BBC in London.

Mr. Currie: I did not see the word "condemnation".

The Taoiseach: Certainly, the way I read it was as a very strong condemnation of the events that took place.

Mr. Currie: No, they were not condemnations.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Taoiseach without interruption, please.

The Taoiseach: I hope we can still get to a position where all republican and nationalist parties will sign up to the new policing authority of Northern Ireland. For that to happen a number of aspects will have to be dealt with and it will take some more time to do that. We have just been talking about the Finucane, Hamill and Nelson inquiries but there are other issues, including emblems and badges. Those issues have to be resolved before we will get agreement on them, either from the SDLP or Sinn Féin, and we are continuing to endeavour to do that. There are difficulties in these negotiations for other people in other parties, which I understand. We are seeking to reach a fair understanding of the implementation of the Patten report as completely as possible, while at the same time understanding other people's difficulties. We will continue to do that.

As I have said so many times on Question Time, to bring normality to the affairs of Northern Ireland and to overcome all the difficulties of recent decades, not to mind history, the community requires an acceptable police force - acting as normal police services the world over - able to deal with all issues, including violence, smuggling and drugs offences. To do that, everybody needs to be involved. That is why we must continue working to ensure participation in the new police service by all sides of the community, including people who perhaps would not be associated with any side.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: On 28 February, Deputy Quinn raised a question in this Chamber along the same lines that the Taoiseach has just addressed, as to whether Sinn Féin wanted to find an acceptable form of policing in the North of Ireland. Will the Taoiseach - and Deputy Quinn, also, when he has the opportunity - acknowledge that this is an issue which Sinn Féin takes with the utmost seriousness? The communities that support our party have borne the brunt of sectarian policing by the RUC over the past 80 years.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: A question please, Deputy.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Yes. They need and demand a representative and accountable police service. I have already asked a question of the Taoiseach and I have a second question. Am I right in understanding from the Taoiseach's earlier remarks, that he agrees that this issue must be got absolutely right - the Taoiseach will be familiar with that language - and that the actions of the RUC Chief Constable in proceeding with the recruiting advertisements when this matter remains unresolved is unacceptable? In addition, the policing boards that were required under the same British legislation have not yet been established. Even in terms of the British Government's own policing legislation the decision to proceed was absolutely unacceptable. I would like to know the Taoiseach's position on both those points.

The Taoiseach: It is essential to get it absolutely right but, as Deputy Ó Caoláin would agree, the phrase "absolutely right" must include everybody. However, it is not easy to get it absolutely right for everybody. For example, in getting it absolutely right for somebody, one might get it totally wrong for someone else. As the Deputy knows, that is part of the dilemma. I am endeavouring to get it absolutely right, in a way which is fair to everybody, so that all can move forward.

With regard to the policing boards, it is essential that the balance, the system and the operational aspects are correct. I believe that can be achieved. Mr. Chris Patten did his homework well and if we could achieve what he set out in his report, that would be very acceptable to us. I see no reason to go beyond what he proposed.

On the administration of policing, the aspects of that can also be got right. Admittedly there are some difficulties. At one stage, we had 11 points which we tried to resolve. We do not have anything like that outstanding at present. I think we can get a satisfactory outcome. Deputy Quinn referred last week to the issue of emblems and badges. We understand the historical difficulties in that regard and we are all at one in trying to find a resolution.

Mr. Sargent: On the policing issue, could the Taoiseach indicate what progress is being made on the various cross-border initiatives between An Gárda Síochána in this jurisdiction and the new police service in the North, in relation to training and placement positions for members of An Gárda Síochána north of the border and vice versa. Given the level of vacancies in the police service in the North, are there opportunities for filling those vacancies in the context of more cross border co-operation? Would it be an important step towards helping to make the police service in the North more acceptable to both communities, if that level of co-operation was visible and acknowledged more openly?

Would the Taoiseach also agree that there is a role for a greater level of bilingualism in the new service, including written material and forms and by acknowledging that the Irish language and perhaps also the Scots Ulster language as well as English, should be more visible, to indicate an acceptance by the police service of the diversity within the community?

With regard to the Taoiseach's visit to Wales, has he subsequently communicated any concern to the British Prime Minister that the Cheltenham horseracing event still seems set to take place? Would he also accept that it is particularly vital for him to re-establish his own bona fides in that regard, given the widespread view among the general public that his visit was not as necessary as he perceived it to be. It sent a mixed message which is still being muddied-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy, please-----

Mr. Sargent: This matter will arise again under special private notice questions and the Taoiseach should clarify his position on it.

The Taoiseach: On the matter of the Irish language and Ulster Scots, a number of efforts are being made to promote and co-ordinate the use of both languages. We have been supporting that in every way possible. The process of administrative change may not yet have reached the stage of using bi-lingual forms but I hope matters can move in that direction.

The Deputy also inquired about the level of co-operation between the Garda and the RUC. In respect of security matters, as has been the case in recent years, the Garda and the RUC continue to co-ordinate their activities as much as possible. I hope that the system, perhaps within the NIO and other bodies, will improve. It has been publicly stated that two members of the Garda Síochána responded to an advertisement for a number of positions and, on a technicality, were not called for interview. I do not believe that was very smart and perhaps I will leave my comments at that and not state what I really believe.

I am of the opinion that levels of co-operation must be developed and that the process should include members of the general police forces and not just senior officers. If this happens, signals will be sent to members of the Garda Síochána about the role they can play. There are no difficulties between high ranking officers, the Governments or the various Departments. However, down the ranks there continue to be problems which may be linked to historical matters. When members of the RUC served in Bosnia and elsewhere, they received training at Templemore. That is an acceptable example of co-operation and it should continue.

I already answered questions from Deputy Quinn in respect of Cheltenham. With regard to the matter involving Wales, I do not believe there was any misunderstanding. That issue was not raised in any of the hundreds of telephone calls we received at the weekend. We must make it clear that anyone travelling from rural areas, farms and other locations should not be doing so. Their actions are clearly unhelpful. I am conscious that 60,000 people per day are passing through the airports but, where possible, people should avoid travelling.

I heard one comment which made the comparison between addressing the Welsh Assembly and attending a football match. I do not believe any Member would take that seriously and I certainly do not. I take a light hearted view of this matter, in any event, given that the FA Carling Premiership is effectively over. There is no need for people to travel to football matches. However, we must continue to be vigilant for a considerable period.

Mr. Noonan: The Taoiseach stated earlier that he did not expect the round of talks taking place today, which will continue tomorrow and, perhaps, into the weekend, to achieve a settlement in respect of decommissioning, demilitarisation or policing. He further stated that what was rather involved was the putting in place of a process. By the term "process" does the Taoiseach mean a timetable for dealing with matters under de Chastelain, a separate timetable for dealing with matters involving policing and a third for dealing with matters involving demilitarisation? Would this process include all-party discussions which could culminate, in the autumn, with a round table conference and, ultimately, lead to an agreement?

Mr. Quinn: I wish the Taoiseach well in his objective. I hope he can get to that point and that we have something that will manage the process through the marching season until the autumn, as he said.

I want to ask three questions. First, in respect of the British-Irish interparliamentary tier which is part and parcel of the Good Friday Agreement, does the Taoiseach believe the numerical composition of representatives from this House and from Westminster is in excess of a parity of esteem, to borrow a phrase from another place, in relation to all of the other nations affected? Perhaps the Taoiseach might reconsider that composition at some future date. Second, with regard to foot and mouth disease and setting good example, since next week is a committee week of the House, and by coincidence the same week as Cheltenham - the Chief Whip is to be complimented - will the Taoiseach ensure that representatives of this House do not set a bad example by going to Cheltenham? Will he join me, the Leader of the Fine Gael Party and others in ensuring no member of the parliamentary party goes to Cheltenham next week, irrespective of whether it is on or off?

Mr. Barrett: We already cancelled our tickets.

Mr. Quinn: That includes the running of our own horse as well. It is about perception and example.

Mr. Barrett: We cancelled the bookings.

Mr. Quinn: I did not know. I compliment the Deputy.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy Quinn, do not allow yourself to be deflected by interruptions.

Mr. Quinn: My third question is in relation to policing. I welcome Deputy Ó Caoláin back to the House after a long absence. I got the impression that he had lapsed into some new form of abstentionism, but he is welcome back.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I am glad the Deputy missed me.

Mr. Quinn: I did not miss him. I just noticed he was not here. There is a difference. Has the Taoiseach formed the view that some others have formed, namely, that Sinn Féin is raising the barrier in respect of issues surrounding policing as a diversion from its failure to deliver one iota on the issue of decommissioning since the Good Friday Agreement was signed?

The Taoiseach: On the interparliamentary tier, I detect from Deputy Quinn that he has heard there is some difficulty in that respect. I will be glad to explore that. I have no problem keeping it under review. All I have heard is that some of the smaller assemblies, Wales and Scotland in particular, have numerical problems but I am prepared to look at any aspect of that. I do not have a difficulty with it.

On the foot and mouth question, I cannot understand why anyone would still want to run a horse in Cheltenham because it is almost on top of an exclusion zone.

This is not just another race meeting, which would be bad enough, but is on top of an exclusion zone. I was told last week in Wales by the British Minister of Agriculture that he believed Cheltenham would not go ahead. No one from here, or anywhere else, should go. I welcome Deputy Barrett's announcement that the Arctic Copper contingent pulled out.

I request Deputy Quinn to give me until Friday to answer his question on policing.

PRIORITY QUESTIONS.

Tourism Promotion.

38. Mr. Higgins (Mayo) asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will outline the function of Tourism Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6697/01]

Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Dr. McDaid): I congratulate the Deputies on their elevation to Sport and Tourism. I look forward to positive debates with them. Both are seriously affected by the foot and mouth situation. This is a £3 million industry and is suffering daily.

At the inaugural meeting of the North South Ministerial Council in tourism sectoral format, in Belfast on 27 October 2000, the council agreed to establish the new all island tourism marketing company, Tourism Ireland Limited. The company was formally incorporated on 11 December 2000 and its board of directors was appointed on 19 December 2000.

The functions of the new company are set out in detail in its memorandum of association. The new company will have responsibility for tourism brand Ireland, strategic all-island destination marketing in all markets outside Ireland, international roll out of regional and product marketing programmes formulated by Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board, and operation of the overseas office network.

I am greatly impressed by the enthusiasm, energy and professionalism of the new board under the chairmanship of Andrew Coppel with Ann Riordan as vice-chair. They and their board have a challenging task in ensuring that the new company is bedded down and fully operational for the year 2002 tourism marketing season.

Mr. Higgins (Mayo): I thank the Minister for his kind words and I look forward to a constructive working relationship with him in the House.

Is it not a fact that we now have three bodies promoting tourism on the island - the Northern Ireland Tourist Board, Bord Fáilte and Tourism Ireland? Why is there not a fully integrated tourist board promoting the island as a whole abroad?

Dr. McDaid: The new tourism company was set up by Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. In the Good Friday Agreement it was agreed to establish a tourism company with responsibility for marketing the island of Ireland. The company has been set up by both tourist boards with responsibility for marketing Ireland on an all island destination basis. Both Ministers are responsible for the company.

The Deputy may be referring to recent newspaper articles. I was saddened by their attitude which does not reflect reality. The Deputy must understand that this is probably the finest board established with marketing ability. There is no overlap. In future, I assure the Deputy, that this will not be the case.

Mr. Higgins (Mayo): Is the Minister aware that there is much concern about this new tourism body? The all-Ireland approach means that we are unable to emphasise our significant currency difference with sterling. Particularly US and UK tourists have a big advantage in coming here vis-à-vis the euro versus the dollar and pound sterling. This body cannot promote this as it would appear to be discriminating against one part of the island. Another currency advantage, for visitors from Germany and France, next in importance to the United States and Britain, cannot be emphasised either. Is the Minister aware that a Kerry independent Fianna Fáil councillor, Michael Donoghue, said that the all-Ireland approach of the new body disadvantages areas further south such as Kerry, which will lose out significantly?

Dr. McDaid: It will be a matter for the board to decide about the currency matter, as will the marketing strategy. I would remind the Deputy that the currency is not favourable to us or to France, Italy and Germany, countries the Deputy mentioned. It will be a matter for the board.

Kerry and southern parts of the country suffer too much congestion. Decongestion will benefit them and allow the regional policy to bring tourists to other areas where the product is equally valid. Regionalisation must be pursued.

Stadium-Campus Ireland.

39. Mr. O'Shea asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will commission an expert group of persons from outside the jurisdiction to assess and report on the future need for sports stadia before any irrevocable decision is made regarding the national stadium element of Sports Campus Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6797/01]

Dr. McDaid: The Government's decision to proceed with the provision of a campus of sporting excellence, including a stadium capable of accommodating major international events at Abbotstown, was informed by a feasibility study undertaken by Pricewaterhouse Coopers. The study concluded that "only the proposed National Stadium will possess sufficient amenities together with the surrounding infrastructure to satisfy the ever increasing requirements from the public and the media in this new age of commercial sports". It was carried out by a team of eminent consultancy groups with expertise on an international scale under the overall direction of a steering group which included representatives of the GAA, FAI and IRFU.

I do not accept the Deputy's suggestion of commissioning an expert group from outside the jurisdiction to assess and report on the future need for sports stadia. I consider that the needs of sport in this country have been clearly identified. This Government, which has invested more in the development of sport at all levels than any previous Government and continues to do so, will proceed with the stadium and other facilities planned for Sports Campus Ireland at Abbotstown.

Mr. O'Shea: I thank the Minister for his detailed reply. Would he not agree that, despite what he said, there is Croke Park, an 80,000 seater stadium in Dublin with a £40 million overrun, Lansdowne Road and the Eircom park project, from which the Government is trying to buy the FAI off? The costs of these projects are running out of control. Fresh outside eyes without the baggage of sporting links here, could look at what the country needs and how the taxpayers' money could best be spent in providing stadia.

Dr. McDaid: That would add to the costs the Deputy is quite rightly trying to keep down. What is the point of adding another layer of bureaucracy by commissioning more outside consultants to inform us of what we already know from PricewaterhouseCoopers? The outlying parts of the project will soon begin, and many excellent people are interested in tendering for these. Only when documents of tender are received does one know how much a project will cost. We will know shortly if the professionally estimated cost of £350 million for Sports Campus Ireland is correct. There are six or seven companies, from all over the world, who are very interested in putting tender documents to us soon.

Mr. O'Shea: I find it difficult to follow the Minister's logic. He quoted extensively from a report which looked at 15 stadia built by city or state in the United States. The average over-run in the cost of stadia was 73.4%. Building inflation is between 20% and 30%, so it is ludicrous that the Minister sticks with the figure of £280 million for the stadium, a year after it was first announced. It does not stand up to economic scrutiny.

Dr. McDaid: Not once has Deputy O'Shea mentioned that the figure of £230 million includes a built-in contingency plan of £50 million. The contingency plan gives us £50 million to play with in the event of alterations being made to the stadium, for example the addition of a roof.

Mr. O'Shea: An over-run of 70% will not be covered by £50 million.

Dr. McDaid: We should wait until tenders for the project have come in, as only then will we have a realistic estimate of what the price will be. We should not waste time gathering more consultant's reports when the country needs this facility.

Tourism Industry.

40. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if his attention has been drawn to a study commissioned by the regional tourism authorities outlining the fragmentation of public sector responsibilities and support services for the tourism sector; his views on the report; the action he has taken or intends to take on the issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6696/01]

Dr. McDaid: During a meeting last October the chairs and managers of the regional tourism authorities presented me with a paper in which they listed the public sector bodies involved in the tourism sector, outlined their roles and responsibilities and suggested a number of ways of improving co-operation between agencies in order to ensure optimum return from investment of public funds in tourism marketing and product development.

The multiplicity of bodies involved with tourism development and promotion carries the risk of duplication of effort and less efficient use of resources, particularly public resources. The best way of avoiding fragmentation is if all bodies involved with tourism development work towards the realisation of a common strategy, adopting a unified and clearly focused approach.

The Tourism Development Strategy, which Bord Fáilte has recently published, is designed to provide a framework within which coherent decisions can be made by all funding bodies whose activities impact on tourism. In addition to a national strategic framework, the strategy identifies the importance of drawing up integrated plans for tourism zones to which all players can work.

Under new contractual arrangements entered into between Bord Fáilte and regional tourism authorities, the RTAs are to embark on a pro-active programme to co-ordinate all publicly funded tourism activities in their regions. This will ensure as far as possible that they contribute optimally to the achievement of national tourism objectives, and that local promotional materials accord with national and regional tourism strategies. In respect of rural tourism, following initial consumer-oriented research to define the concept properly, Bord Fáilte will establish a focus group, representative of a wide range of relevant interests to come up with agreed action points to which all can work.

In the Western Development Commission area, a high-level steering group is being established, to co-ordinate all relevant interests in the implementation of a common tourism strategy. I have asked Bord Fáilte to chair that group and the RTAs will be represented on it. Perhaps most importantly on the issue of co-ordination, in the context of the national development plan, my Department has continued to place enormous emphasis on the need to ensure that infrastructure spend by other Departments and non-tourism agencies, supports tourism priorities.

Mr. Stanton: Given that at least 32 main agencies and a multiplicity of sub-agencies are under the auspices of other Government Departments, has any contact been made between the Minister's Department and other Departments to help streamline and more efficiently use resources?

Dr. McDaid: I agree with the Deputy that we need to streamline our resources. When I came to this Department three years ago, it was pointed out to me that £110 million was outside my remit: I have no control over it. Since then, Bord Fáilte and the regional tourism authorities have agreed new contractual arrangements, and I am pleased with the way they have been handled. The new contracts mean the authorities have to submit new plans to Bord Fáilte so that unnecessary overlapping is eliminated. It was recently pointed out to me that the number of glossy brochures and other literature published by the various regions would fill 20 juggernauts, enough to stretch from O'Connell Street to the docks. I agree there is a need for co-ordination.

Mr. Stanton: Have discussions taken place between officials from the Department and other Departments outside the Minister's remit, who nevertheless are involved, in order to streamline the area of tourism promotion? Will the RTAs be given authority to direct matters in their regions?

Dr. McDaid: The RTAs will always direct matters, in accordance with the new contracts. I am delighted with the excellent job they are doing, for example in the markets.

Dr. McDaid: The Western Development Commission has set an example, by setting up a high level steering group to co-ordinate relevant interests there. It is the type of pilot scheme I welcome. Bord Fáilte will keep an eye on the regional tourism authorities under the new contract.

Mr. Stanton: Has anything happened inter-departmentally?

Dr. McDaid: No.

Olympic Games Performance.

41. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the measures he will take to implement the recommendations of the Sydney review in order to improve the performance of the athletes in the Athens Olympic Games in 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6786/01]

Dr. McDaid: Last October, I asked the Sports Council to undertake a review of Ireland's participation in the Sydney Olympics. The purpose of the review, which was carried out by a steering group appointed by the council, was to learn from the experiences of Sydney 2000 and to develop a strategy, based on the analysis of the factual information gathered during the review, for the preparations towards Athens 2004.

The final report is an invaluable and objective analysis of the Sydney experience, which will make an important contribution to our planning for future major events. I am grateful to both the steering group for the dedication and hard work they put in to ensure that the report was delivered to me within such a short space of time, and to every organisation and to every individual who co-operated with the steering group. I fully accept the 29 recommendations of the report, the implementation of which can make a real difference to the athletes preparing for Athens 2004 and beyond. I have asked that everyone directly involved take on board these recommendations and work together, in a spirit of generosity and openness, to nurture, support and encourage our emerging and elite talent. No less is expected by Irish people, who treasure and value sport and who have come to expect that our athletes and teams perform to the very best of their abilities, at the highest level of Olympic and world sport.

It was the opinion of the steering group, and I fully endorse this, that the Irish Sports Council, as the body charged with the responsibility for the development of sport, is best placed to oversee the delivery of the strategies and outcomes of this report and to carry out discussions with the relevant national governing bodies and other interested parties. In this context, I understand the Sports Council has already made preparations for undertaking this process.

Additional Information

It is my intention that we should benefit from the experience and that the lessons of Sydney 2000 are used to enhance our preparations for all future major events. In the meantime, I urge everybody to focus on the positive aspects of this review and the implementation of recommendations that will have a lasting and beneficial effect on Irish sport.

Mr. Deenihan: One of the recommendations of the review group was that top coaches be imported into Ireland to work with Olympic athletes, or alternatively, that Irish athletes be sent abroad to obtain this top level coaching. What steps have been taken to put this in place?

The review group also suggested that a review should be carried out on the functions of the NCTC by the Sports Council. When is this due to take place? What are the exact terms of the review, and who will carry it out?

Dr. McDaid: The review recommended changes within the NCTC. I will await its recommendations which will be carried out by the Sports Council. The two will work in conjunction with one another, and it will be the overall responsibility of the Minister to see that recommendations are carried out.

With regard to coaching, the report was barely with me when I met all the national organisations involved in Olympic sport. They indicated that funding was the main priority. In the budget we responded by doubling the funding of the Sports Council over the period. That funding was distributed to the national organisations, and it is up to them to indicate their priorities. If we are to go by what they told me, funding was very much bound up with coaching and the lack of coaches and where athletes could be sent. It will be a matter for them where they direct the increased funding.

Mr. Deenihan: Olympic sports operate on a four year cycle and their grant aid should reflect this. Is there a plan in place that would enable sports organisations to know what funding they will have over the four year period, given that a similar scheme has just been announced to fund the Arts Council under a four year plan?

The review group also recommended that the OCI be given partnership funding to assist in developing a more professional approach in its operations. What steps has the Minister taken to implement this proposal?

Does the Minister agree that Government, OCI and NCTC policy should be athlete-centred and should not involve the type of turf war that has been going on for the past four years. It is the athletes who are important here, and all the organisations and associations should support measures to help them rather than fighting a turf war that has done little good for Irish sport.

Dr. McDaid: I will examine that matter. When I became Minister there was an ad hoc system in operation under which each national organisation applied for and was given funding according to what it had planned. I introduced a strategy whereby every supporting organisation had to submit a strategy plan by January so we would know the requirements of each organisation. That meant if a world championship were scheduled for a particular year it would be catered for, rather than being considered as an afterthought. This system, whereby an organisation submits a strategy plan in early January when it knows in advance about championships could lead to an overall four year plan. Perhaps there is some fine-tuning that could be done, but there is a strategy in place for each organisation which operates on a year to year basis, and the organisations tend to know in advance their exact calls for the coming year.

With regard to the OCI, I will keep my part of the bargain. It has requested a meeting with me which I have arranged for Thursday.

Mr. Deenihan: Was it Liam Lawlor who requested that meeting?

Dr. McDaid: I want to co-operate with the bodies in every way possible. By the way, the conflicts have not been going on for the past four years but for the past 12 years.

Other Questions.

RAPID Programme.

42. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation his proposals for a programme similar to the RAPID initiative for rural areas and rural provincial towns; the timescale for any such programme; the steps which will be taken to ensure this programme is specifically designed for rural areas, rather than simply an urban based programme imposed on rural areas; the consultation which will be held with rural partnerships regarding the development of the programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6620/01]

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Mr. E. Ryan): The revitalising areas by planning, investment and development programme, otherwise known as the RAPID programme, targets the 25 most deprived neighbourhoods in the State for special investment involving the front-loading of State investment for facilities and services to bring about a major improvement in the living standards of the residents of these areas over the next three years. Because the 25 areas identified by the objective designation process are all located in the major urban centres, the Government has decided that there will be a second strand to this programme which will be introduced over the next few months for rural areas and provincial towns.

The second strand of the programme will be drawn up by the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, and the Department of Environment and Local Government, working together to devise proposals to effectively address the particular needs of rural areas and provincial towns. A working group chaired by the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and involving officials from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, the Department of Environment and Local Government, my own Department and Area Development Management Limited has been established to examine how this strand of the programme might best be put into operation. Once the broad parameters are set, and following consultation with relevant agencies and the social partners, proposals will be submitted to Government in due course.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: The Minister said consultations will begin in a few months' time. Does he have a specific time in mind? With whom will he consult? It is important that the programme being devised is not urban-based as this would not be suitable for rural areas. Will it be a completely different type of programme?

Mr. E. Ryan: One of the reasons rural areas did not show up in the deprivation index is that rural deprivation is more spread out. It was in urban areas that obvious deprivation showed up. We recognised that there are problems in rural areas that we need to address. There are also problems in small rural towns where there are smaller communities and where deprivation is slightly different from that in larger urban areas. We are examining ways to address those problems. As in the case of the RAPID programme, there definitely will be consultation with local communities, partnerships and with the voluntary sector.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: When will it start?

Mr. E. Ryan: The Department is currently trying to pull things together. I will come back to the Deputy with a more exact date.

Mr. Deenihan: Local authorities have already designated pilot areas because of depopulation and rural deprivation. Will the Department consider those areas in the allocation of future funding and in deciding on the pilot areas to be included in its programme?

Mr. E. Ryan: It will be a matter for the group to which I referred to decide on the areas, as happened in the case of the 25 areas already chosen. Obviously not everybody is happy with the 25 areas chosen. It would be impossible for me to answer "yes" as I do not know the areas. We realise there is a difference between urban and rural neglect.

Mr. Deenihan: Will the Minister give preferential treatment to those areas or does he consider it to be a matter for the local authorities?

An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputies not to interrupt unless the Chair gives them the floor.

Mr. E. Ryan: There are obvious areas which fall into this category. One did not have to be a brain surgeon to select the 25 areas which were chosen. All Deputies could list areas in urban blackspots which fall into this category. If local authorities have already pinpointed areas then they will probably fall into this category. It is impossible for me to say the specific locations as it will be a matter for the Department to set the criteria and select the areas to be included. By its nature, obviously there are areas which will be excluded under the RAPID programme and, as we have discovered, they will not be happy. As I have said to communities which have been excluded, this does not necessarily mean they will not get funding. All we are doing is prioritising certain areas. The other areas can still apply for funding and, hopefully, they will get it.

An Ceann Comhairle: As time is limited, I will allow a brief supplementary from Deputies Moynihan-Cronin, Naughten and Stanton.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: What funding will be spent under the programme on urban areas and what funding has been ring-fenced for a similar programme for rural areas?

Mr. Naughten: Why is the lead Department the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development rather than the Minister's Department and the area partnership boards which have experience in dealing with disadvantage and have highlighted deprived areas? Under this proposal the process will have to be restarted.

Mr. Stanton: Under what programme will funding be made available?

Mr. E. Ryan: On the funding, there is no set amount. The national development plan proposes expenditure in excess of £40 billion over the next seven years and, of this amount, approximately £15 billion is for social inclusion measures. Regardless of which Government sector it comes under, once a plan is drawn up for an area and submitted it will be given priority by the Department. There is no set amount; the Department will prioritise it and try to implement the national development plan over three years as opposed to seven years for the country as a whole. The reason the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development was chosen is that it has responsibility for agriculture and rural development.

Mr. Naughten: A fig leaf for the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cúiv.

An Ceann Comhairle: We must conclude this question as we are way over the time limit.

Mr. E. Ryan: Most people believed that the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development should have responsibility for this programme. The funding can be drawn down under all Departments.

Meeting with FAI.

43. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will make a statement on the outcome of his discussions on 23 February 2001 with the FAI regarding its plans for Eircom Park and the possible use by the association of the proposed Stadium Ireland; and if he has received any commitment from the FAI in this regard. [6603/01]

75. Mrs. Owen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will report on the recent meeting with the treasurer of the Football Association of Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3742/01]

Dr. McDaid: I propose to take Questions Nos. 43 and 75 together.

A number of meetings have taken place between the FAI and the Government to discuss possible use by the association of Campus and Stadium Ireland. The most recent of these meetings were held on 29 January with the treasurer of the FAI and on 23 February and 5 March with its president, chief executive and representatives of the officer board of the FAI.

At the meeting held on 23 February between the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance, the Minister of State at the Office of Public Works, representatives of Campus and Stadium Ireland Development Limited representatives of the Football Association of Ireland and I, the Taoiseach outlined a Government proposal for detailed negotiations with the FAI on participating in Stadium Ireland and Sports Campus Ireland. The FAI representatives asked a series of specific questions on the proposal and related issues. The Taoiseach, other Ministers present and I responded to these queries and the Taoiseach undertook to have an expanded detailed proposal prepared for discussion at a further meeting between the two sides. This further meeting was held yesterday at which the Taoiseach expanded on the proposal which would form the basis for further detailed negotiation. The FAI agreed to respond to the Government urgently based on it communicating this proposal to its constituent organisations.

Mr. O'Shea: Will the Minister confirm a report in one of today's newspapers that the Government offer is to advance £45 million to the FAI in lieu of the pre-sale of corporate boxes and ten year tickets; if and when the stadium opens in 2005 half of this money, £22.5 million, would have to be paid back to the Government and, in the event of the stadium not going ahead, that the £45 million will remain unclaimed with the FAI?

Dr. McDaid: I wish to give the House as much information as I possibly can regarding these meetings. Our meeting yesterday basically concluded with the FAI agreeing to the request to respond urgently to the proposals after discussing them with its constituent organisations. If it has given a message to newspapers in whatever form they appear, that is a matter for the FAI.

As regards the Government side of the bargain, it was agreed that the FAI would discuss the proposals we put to it yesterday on, I understand, Friday with its constituent organisations and come back to us with a "yes" or "no" answer or further proposals, depending on what are the views of its organisations. The proposals put forward at yesterday's meeting are confidential to us and the FAI. I cannot confirm or deny reports in the newspapers.

Mr. Deenihan: Did the Minister or his Department consider the Eircom Park proposal at any stage and did he ever see merit in the proposal?

Dr. McDaid: I believe the Deputy attempted to bring forward a proposal way back when times were hard. However, few men and women have the foresight to bring forward a proposal, as we have brought forward for Campus and Stadium Ireland. This pertains to the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and others. I gave Bernard O'Byrne credit for his vision for Eircom Park and for bringing forward the proposal.

I have always told the FAI that we would prefer it as a partner, not as a tenant, in Campus and Stadium Ireland, together with the IRFU, CSID and the Government. This is entirely a matter for the FAI. The proposals put forward to it make financial sense, and I have never had any other opinion. If the FAI decides to go ahead with Eircom Park that is entirely a matter for it.

Mr. O'Shea: Will the Minister agree it is totally unacceptable that Deputies, who represent taxpayers, have not been made aware by him of the offer made to the FAI? He has not denied that the statements in today's newspaper report are what are on offer. Will he give us the information, bearing in mind that it is in the public arena? He should officially give the information to Deputies.

Is there any question of compensating the FAI for the money already spent on the development of the Eircom Park proposal and the money lost by the FAI in meeting the objection placed by the Government to the planning permission for Eircom Park?

Mr. Naughten: Following on from what Deputy O'Shea said in relation to the £45 million which is reported in the newspapers, will the Minister confirm or deny it given that this is State funding? Will he confirm if similar offers have been made to the IRFU and the GAA?

Dr. McDaid: I do not like withholding any information from the House but I am in a catch 22 because one makes a deal with those with whom one is negotiating. They agree to bring it back to their organisation and on the basis of that data they will make a decision on whether to join in Sports Campus Ireland. Given that it is a catch 22, I cannot elaborate on it further. Whatever the Deputy reads in the newspapers is entire speculation so far as I am concerned.

Mr. O'Shea: Is the Minister denying it?

Dr. McDaid: All issues were discussed with the FAI including the compensation issue but nothing definite has been agreed. I am of the view, and I was supported by others, that if compensation were to be provided on an issue such as this it would set a bad precedent. It is a matter for discussion but compensation along those lines would set a bad precedent. We have had no discussions with the IRFU and the GAA but rest assured I can hear the 'phone ringing and in the interests of sport we will be prepared to enter into negotiations with those other organisations also.

Mr. O'Shea: Will the Minister agree that where the Government wilfully obstructed the planning permission by a spurious objection from the Department of Defence, there must be grounds for compensation? In respect of the newspaper report to which I referred, will the Minister say if it is inaccurate?

Dr. McDaid: I did not see the newspaper report so I cannot say whether it is accurate. In any event I could not give that information given that an agreement was made with the FAI yesterday. The Government has nothing to do with obstructing the planning permission. Planning is a separate issue and we have nothing to do with obstructing it. I understand that matter has not yet been decided.

Mr. Stanton: Why did the Minister choose to have discussions with the FAI? Has he any intention of having discussions with all the other sporting organisations in the country that do such good work for young people, athletes and other disciplines?

Dr. McDaid: The reason I choose the FAI is that I have always indicated it would be preferable to have a campus that included all sports. I have always made that clear. Ireland is unique in that it has three major sports which cater for large attendances. Most European countries have only soccer while other countries have soccer and rugby. Ireland is the only country in Europe that has three disciplines of sport which attract large attendances. I will debate the argument with anybody about Croke Park being a national stadium. It is not on for many reasons, one of which is that there are 40,000 people in and around Croke Park. I admire what they have done for Gaelic and hurling and that they have allowed Croke Park to develop. They have made sacrifices in consultation with the Taoiseach, community groups and the GAA and Croke Park has been allowed to flourish to the flagship stadium it is today. We do not have a stadium for soccer or rugby capable of holding the attendances those two sports will require in the future.

Mr. Deenihan: Will the Minister clarify the role of OCI in Campus Ireland? Has it been consulted in regard to the Olympic infrastructure on the site?

Dr. McDaid: To date there has been no necessity to involve the Olympic Council of Ireland on the site. That would only occur in the event of Ireland applying for the Olympic Games. I was trying to give an idea of the scale of the project being undertaken and the scale of the facilities involved. For example, if the Olympic Games were to be held here - I am not saying we can have them - the infrastructure would be needed. Athletics account for 50% of Olympic sports. To do that, the stadium would have to be closed for approximately three months to put in the Olympic track.

Mr. Deenihan: What about a swimming pool?

Dr. McDaid: The Olympic size swimming pool is already there.

Mr. Deenihan: When will it proceed?

Dr. McDaid: We have got the Olympic size standard but the Olympic Council of Ireland is mostly involved with the organisation and administration of the Olympic Games. All the national organisations that have been involved in the Olympic Sports have been consulted.

Tourism Promotion.

44. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if a scheme of grant assistance will be introduced for the development of facilities and improvement of accommodation at small family owned hotels; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6676/01]

61. Mr. Sheehan asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if funding is available from his Department towards the upgrading of and extensions to hotels in coastal resorts in the interest of promoting the tourism industry. [6482/01]

Dr. McDaid: I propose to take Questions Nos. 44 and 61 together.

My Department does not provide direct grant aid for tourism product development. Bord Fáilte was the implementing body for such schemes under the Tourism Operational Programme, 1994-1999, with decisions on grant approval being made by an independent product management board. A similar arrangement will be in place under the National Development Plan 2000-2006 under which I was able to obtain a commitment of £100 million for a tourism product development.

The new tourism product investment scheme will be administered via the tourism measures of the regional operational programmes. The overall objective of the scheme is to develop the tourism product in a sustainable way that widens the spatial spread of tourism, diverts pressure from highly developed areas and increases the under-performing regions' share of overseas tourism revenue.

There is a general consensus that the focus of public investment in tourism projects must be to enhance the potential of less developed tourism areas by supporting the development of significant attractions or clusters of attractions in such areas. Once a good attractions base starts to be built, it is my view that accommodation developments - whether refurbishment or new build - will follow. In and around areas where new attractions are to be developed under the regional operational programmes, accommodation projects are likely to become even more bankable propositions.

There is quite a long response and in view of the time element and the Deputy's concern about this matter if he wishes I can -----

Mr. Higgins (Mayo): Will the Minister accept that the family owned hotel is an unique and traditional feature of the Irish tourism sector. Those hotels are small, intimate and have a personality all their own, an old world charm, but many will go to the wall. They are caught between the mega all purpose complexes and the B & Bs. Something is needed to underpin that segment of the market which has a potential and a future all its own. Many of these will go to the wall in the next five or six years unless a refurbishment/modernisation programme is put in place to enable them survive and compete.

Dr. McDaid: The reason I did not continue to read the reply was to allow the Deputy in. I share the Deputy's concerns for the small family run business hotels which we have to try to help. However, I am running up against a number of difficulties. For example, the IHF recommendations last week called for the abolition of grants schemes for accommodation. The different sectors are at variance with one another. I would be happy to try to provide a scheme with a view to helping this sector but the question is whether State aids would be approved. That is the problem with providing this sector with grant aid which both the Deputy and I agree is required. It will probably be another six weeks before we receive a response on the operational programme for tourism. We will not know until then. I am anxious and I share of the Deputy's concerns.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: Does the Minister agree a compensation package will be required? There have been a substantial number of cancellations in the national interest because of the foot and mouth disease crisis. If that continues the tourism industry will be in crisis.

Dr. McDaid: While we are concentrating on the agriculture sector and all that entails, we sometimes forget that 184,000 people are employed in the tourism sector which has taken its share of the brunt of the foot and mouth disease crisis. The industry is worth £3 billion to the economy. Jobs will be lost soon but we must ensure that we prioritise. It is vitally important that the agriculture sector remains disease-free and safe because of its value to the economy. I am glad the Deputy raised the issue because the tourism sector is suffering and will suffer even more in the weeks ahead with the cancellation of matches and so on. I admire the sporting organisations for the stand they have taken. The Ireland-England rugby international is estimated to have cost Dublin between £20 million and £25 million.

I do not envisage any programme of compensation. The Taoiseach and the leaders of the Opposition have described the foot and mouth disease outbreak as a national crisis. We all must play our part and wear the green jersey. I hope the crisis is alleviated as quickly as possible. I hope the situation will be looked on in a positive light in the coming weeks, particularly given what will happen over the next week.

Mr. Deenihan: Will the Minister confirm that there is a visitors threshold of 70,000 people under the next tourism operational programme for products to qualify for grant-aid? Will he also confirm that clusters of projects in certain areas will be allowed if they reach the 70,000 threshold? Is there a foundation to the reports that products will not be grant-aided unless they attract 70,000 visitors?

Mr. Naughten: The Minister mentioned the national development plan which was announced in November 1999. He also stated the Department would receive a response from Brussels in six weeks on the operational programme. Is it not the case that £150 million which has been set aside for the marketing and promotion of Ireland is gathering dust because of the delays in approving the programme? When will the marketing and promotion take place?

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: Will the Minister meet tourism industry representatives from Kerry because there were numerous cancellations in the county over the weekend, people were out of work and there is hardship in the area?

Dr. McDaid: On the latter question I have informed ITIC that I am prepared to meet its representatives. I have also indicated to the organisation that it would be appropriate if its representatives met officials of the Departments of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and Arts, Heritage, the Gaeltacht and the Islands.

Figures have been mentioned about the number of visitors products should attract before they receive grant-aid, including 70,000 and 100,000. I will confirm to the Deputy whether a figure has been agreed. However, it is again a case of waiting for the response from Brussels on the operational programme in six weeks.

Mr. Deenihan: It would be unfair to many areas.

Dr. McDaid: We are discussing the funding of such clusters.

Mr. Naughten: A marketing budget of £150 million was approved under the NDP. What is the position regarding that budget?

Dr. McDaid: The budget is £150 million over the next seven years, which is approximately £20 million per year. The industry sought that amount and an extra £12.5 million was provided this year. The budget is being spent by Bord Fáilte but marketing will become a function of Tourism Ireland Ltd. and it has been agreed that it will be given a budget of £22 million this year.

Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.

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