Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2.30 p.m.

Paidir.

Prayer.

CEISTEANNA - QUESTIONS.

Agreements with Members.

1. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the nature of the agreement or understanding between the Government and Deputy Collins; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21906/03]

2. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the understanding which has been reached between the Government and Deputy Collins; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23085/03]

3. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the nature of the agreement or understanding between the Government and Deputy Collins; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23912/03]

4. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach the nature of the agreement or understanding reached between the Government and Deputy Collins; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24889/03]

128. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the nature of the agreement or understanding between the Government and Deputy Collins; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27318/03]

The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, and No. 128 together.

I can confirm to the Dáil that Deputy Collins communicated to the Government Chief Whip his resignation from the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party. There is no agreement or understanding between the Government and the Deputy.

Mr. Kenny: Will the Taoiseach give a definition of the status of Fianna Fáil Deputies who have either resigned the whip or have had the whip taken from them? It appears the only real penalty applied to them is that they miss the excitement of Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meetings. Will the Taoiseach indicate the numbers within his ranks who, like Deputy Collins, have resigned the whip or have had the whip withdrawn from them?

An Ceann Comhairle: That is outside the scope of the question.

Mr. Kenny: Of course, you do not like the scope of the question.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has gone outside it.

Mr. McCormack: It is all internal.

Mr. Kenny: Deputy Collins informed the chairman of the Fianna Fáil Party, Deputy Kirk, that he was resigning the whip. I want to know from the Taoiseach if it is possible to get a definition, without mentioning geographics or demographics, of what status Deputy Collins now has and the status of any other Deputy within the ranks of the Fianna Fáil Party who has resigned or has had the whip withdrawn from him or her. Is special attention being given to these people? While Deputy Collins did not vote with the Government on 5, 6 or 11 November and did not bother to participate, something happened on the way to Damascus because he voted on 12 November with the Government. Is he back or is he not? Demographics, geographics, is he with Fianna Fáil or against it? What is the definition of his status and that of others?

The Taoiseach: As I said in my reply, Deputy Collins is not a member of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party.

Mr. Sargent: The Taoiseach has had plenty of time to think about the relationships between Deputy Collins and Fianna Fáil given that he knew of Deputy Collins's difficulties in June but did nothing about them. Having given so much time to the matter is the Taoiseach in a position to tell the House how Deputy Collins's situation may affect the way tax clearance certificates are to be dealt with in the future? Are there any lessons to be learned from Deputy Collins's difficulties given that apparently there was no problem in obtaining a tax clearance certificate? If that is the case, is it the Taoiseach's view that there is not much validity in a tax clearance certificate?

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is going outside the scope of the question.

Mr. Sargent: We all need a change in the rules and the Taoiseach is the one to herald the change.

The Taoiseach: Deputy Collins and all Members of the Fianna Fáil Party and the other parties, so far as I know, had a tax clearance certificate. In regard to Deputy Collins, an issue has been raised in a Revenue report. That is the subject of independent handling by the Public Offices Commission which has full responsibility and full powers to deal with that matter and I am not going to do its work for it.

Mr. Sargent: That is typical. It is meaningless.

Mr. Rabbitte: What lessons does the Taoiseach think the House and the political system ought to learn from the experience with Deputy Collins? Does the Taoiseach agree that in the minds of the public when he said, as he was able to say from the United States, that as far as he was concerned Deputy Collins had a tax free certificate, that seems to convey to the public that his tax-----

Mr. M. Ahern: Tax clearance certificate.

Mr. Rabbitte: I am immensely grateful. On reflection it looks as if he did have a tax free certificate for quite a while.

An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy Rabbitte to continue with his question and not to allow himself to be side-tracked.

Mr. Rabbitte: That seems to be the problem. He had a tax free certificate. Does the Taoiseach agree that in the view of the man and woman in the street, that means that one's tax affairs are in order? What are the implications of that for the system we operate to underpin Members' elections to the House where the general view was that if one was in possession of a tax clearance certificate, one's tax affairs were in order but now it turns out that is not the case?

The Taoiseach: As I said previously on this point, I agree with what Deputy Rabbitte says. I understood a tax clearance certificate meant that one's tax affairs were totally in order. Whether it means that or not, we have to wait until the Public Offices Commission investigates this matter. Deputy Collins informed me he had a tax clearance certificate, that he had sorted out a tax issue with the Revenue Commissioners but that it would be published on a list which would be in the public domain shortly. He told me that last June. It did not come into the public domain until September. He stated that he believed it would lead to the Public Offices Commission examining the matter. At this stage Deputy Collins has opted on advice to deal fully with the commission, as he must under law. We must wait to see the circumstances of the tax issue that he resolved with the Revenue Commissioners, what Revenue's view was, how that affected the tax clearance certificates and how the Public Offices Commission, under its statutory powers, interprets that. I honestly do not know the answers to these questions. We must wait for the report.

Mr. J. Higgins: When the Taoiseach was in New York he described as "spongers" the decent compliant taxpayers who campaigned against the local bin tax regime. Why did he not call Deputy Collins, against whom there is a proven case of tax evasion, a sponger? Is it not the reality that the resignation by Deputy Collins of the Fianna Fáil whip is a nod and a wink to convince the public that Fianna Fáil might take tax evasion seriously? If it did, the party membership of a tax evader would immediately come into question. The reality is that tax evasion is not a serious issue in Fianna Fáil.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy must ask a question.

Mr. J. Higgins: If the Taoiseach legally allows millionaires and billionaires to pose as tax exiles to evade their social responsibility in taxation-----

An Ceann Comhairle: We are dealing with Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, and Question No. 128.

Mr. J. Higgins: I know that.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is well outside the scope of these questions.

Mr. J. Higgins: We are trying to learn lessons from this situation, as several other Deputies have said. I was about to conclude. If the Taoiseach grants millionaires and billionaires tax exile status and allows them evade or avoid taxes to the tune of hundreds of millions, what does it matter if one of the lads does it unofficially?

The Taoiseach: Deputy Higgins is ahead of me, as always. If he has evidence that Deputy Collins is guilty of tax evasion, which is a criminal offence, perhaps he would give the House the details. It might be better still were he to say it outside the House and allow Deputy Collins deal with it.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Will the Taoiseach explain to the House the ethical basis for agreements with Deputy Collins or other Independent Members of the House? Will he advise us whether he agrees that agreements with so-called Independent Members should be in the public arena where they would be open and transparent?

Should it not be the case that, if there is or has been in the course of this and the previous Governments' terms in office since 1997, a preferential facilitation for Independent Members, as against other elected Members on the Opposition benches, that is something of which the wider public and the relevant constituents should be fully apprised? Does the Taoiseach not agree that we need open and transparent detail of such agreements?

The Taoiseach: As I stated previously, there is no agreement with Deputy Collins. The previous Government acted in line with the tradition of the House which is that, when a Government does not have a majority, it works with Independent Members by explaining to them and co-operating with them on the legislative programme and dealing with issues of concern to them. That has always been the way.

Mr. McCormack: Will the Taoiseach take Deputy Collins back before the European elections?

Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach will recall that, shortly after the Revenue Commissioners published Deputy Collins's name in September, that mighty man from Limerick, the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Dea, appeared on "Prime Time" and said that the Taoiseach had insisted that Deputy Collins notify the Public Offices Commission of his tax problems last June.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy's remarks do not arise out of these questions.

Mr. Kenny: They do arise.

An Ceann Comhairle: Not out of these questions. I suggest that the Deputy submit a question on the issue.

Mr. Kenny: They do arise. They are relevant-----

An Ceann Comhairle: We are dealing with questions about the agreement or understanding between the Government and Deputy Collins.

Mr. Kenny: They are relevant to the agreement or understanding the Government has with Deputy Collins. Will the Taoiseach admit that this statement was not true and that the Public Offices Commission was not notified of the tax problems of Deputy Collins until after his name was published by the Revenue Commissioners? Will he state whether that is a failure or a weakness in the strategy and conditions set up by him?

An Ceann Comhairle: That matter does not arise from these five questions.

Mr. Kenny: Excuse me, it does arise.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair has ruled that it does not arise. The questions are quite specific.

Mr. Kenny: The Chair has ruled on many occasions in the House, in my presence, that it has no control over the response given by the Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is correct, but I have control over the contents of a question, and the question-----

Mr. Kenny: Is there an understanding between the Government and Deputy Collins in terms of the agreements worked out between them? There is a need for the Taoiseach to answer that. What is the current status of the inquiry into Deputy Collins's behaviour, being conducted by the Taoiseach's party? Will that inquiry be concluded shortly and will the report be published?

The Taoiseach: On the first issue, I am aware, as I stated previously, that in an interview on RTE television the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, gave in good faith a version of events as he understood them. That was not the version given in the statement issued by the Public Offices Commission. I too clarified the position, which was accepted by the Minister, Deputy O'Dea, and everyone else. There was no problem there.

On the other matter, Deputy Collins has opted to deal with the independent statutory body handling this issue and I am not au fait with how that investigation stands.

Mr. Sargent: Deputy Collins, albeit no longer holding the party whip, is still a member of the Taoiseach's party. Is it not therefore the case that there is an understanding of membership? We are trying to elicit further information. Is the Taoiseach concerned that Deputy Collins remains a party member, having had to secure a tax clearance certificate and indeed swear on oath that he was in compliance with tax laws? Is there not a difficulty for the Taoiseach in having members of his party swearing on oath that they are in total compliance-----

An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise from these questions.

Mr. Sargent: It involves the relationship between the Taoiseach and Deputy Collins, which is one of party membership. Will the Taoiseach bring about changes for his party membership or for the way in which tax compliance is assured to the public in advance of an election?

The Taoiseach: I will not comment on this matter in advance of the Public Offices Commission completing its investigations. Experience has shown me that many issues, when investigated, turn out to be totally different. I will be glad to comment when I see the report on these matters.

Mr. Rabbitte: Has the Government an understanding with Deputy Collins that, for example, he will support the Hanly report? If so, he would be the only Fianna Fáil Deputy in the mid-west region to support it.

Mr. McCormack: He would be the only person in Fianna Fáil to support it.

Mr. Rabbitte: As I understand from the Taoiseach's answer to Deputy Sargent, the internal Fianna Fáil inquiry or commission has collapsed. Is that due to the fact that he selected as chairman of that inquiry someone whose company made a settlement with the Revenue Commissioners for over €600,000 some years ago?

An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise from these five questions.

Mr. Rabbitte: Will the internal inquiry proceed?

The Taoiseach: The Public Offices Commission inquiry is taking precedence. I thought that Deputy Rabbitte would at least be fair to a former colleague of his. That person's company made the settlement, but he was not a director of the company at the time, he was a Minister of State. As Deputy Rabbitte knows, he did not have responsibility for those matters. His company made a settlement, but that is not the issue. The issue is that Deputy Collins has decided on his own legal advice that he will deal comprehensively with the Public Offices Commission because it is a statutory body and he will give precedence to it.

An Ceann Comhairle: Sorry, Deputy Rabbitte, the House has spent 20 minutes on this question and we have gone well outside the scope of the four questions which are similar to each other.

Deputy Rabbitte: There are four questions.

An Ceann Comhairle: Sorry, Deputy, there are four questions and they relate to an agreement or understanding between the Government and Deputy Michael Collins. The House has gone well outside the scope of the questions-----

Mr. McCormack: No more than when we began. There have been four questions and no answer.

An Ceann Comhairle: -----and it is anxious to move on to other questions.

Mr. Rabbitte: I am anxious to facilitate the Chair but it is an important subject. After the decades of tax evasion, non-compliance, DIRT accounts, bogus non-resident accounts and all the rest-----

An Ceann Comhairle: That has nothing to do with the questions. We will move on to Question No. 5.

Mr. Rabbitte: No, a Cheann Comhairle, it has.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair has ruled on the matter.

Mr. Rabbitte: In respect of the Taoiseach's statement that he has no understanding with Deputy Collins in terms of his future voting arrangements in the House, will the Taoiseach take the opportunity to condemn non-compliance with the tax laws by a member of the parliamentary party of any party in the House?

The Taoiseach: As I have stated several times, no current Member of the House has brought in more anti-avoidance and anti-evasion legislation than me. I do not believe any other Member has done so since the foundation of the State and certainly no current Member has. As the person who brought in that legislation and took enormous political criticism from the media, business and, to a lesser extent, Members for doing so, of course I subscribe to the standards outlined by the Deputy.

Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach referred previously on Question Time to a certain status attached to those who are not members of Fianna Fáil or another party and are given the assistance of an official to inform them of issues that arise. Is Deputy Collins in receipt of assistance from the same official or is there such a conduit of information given that he cannot attend Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meetings? How is he informed of the message, whether it be about Hanly or demographics, geographics or whatever? How is he to know how he should address the population on these critical issues? Is an official assigned to assist him in this regard?

Mr. McGinley: A special handler.

Mr. McCormack: He is on his own.

The Taoiseach: As I stated earlier, there is no agreement or understanding between the Government and the Deputy and neither is he seeking assistance from the office of the Chief Whip or the official who liaises with people who seek it.

Departmental Staff.

5. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the number of staff vacancies in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22034/03]

6. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the number of staff vacancies there are in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24084/03]

7. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the policy of his Department in respect of the employment of persons with disabilities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22035/03]

8. Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the policy on employment for persons with disabilities within his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27350/03]

The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 8, inclusive, together. There are no vacancies in my Department at present. Vacancies are generally consistent with day to day variations arising from promotions and departures.

Recruitment to fill posts in my Department is in line with the normal procedures that apply to the Civil Service. Staff are assigned by the Civil Service Commission and also recruited through FÁS in the case of services officers, services attendants and cleaners. Internal promotions are effected in accordance with agreed procedures in the Department. My Department is committed to a policy of equal opportunity for all staff. We follow the guidelines set out in the code of practice for the employment of people with disabilities in the Civil Service. Recruitment, promotion, training and all other benefits and opportunities are decided on the grounds of ability, qualifications and other relevant objective criteria.

Of the 193.8 core staff employed in my Department, six people have disabilities. My Department therefore exceeds the 3% target for the employment of people with disabilities. The Department's offices are compatible with the needs of persons with disabilities.

Mr. Kenny: I am pleased to hear that the Department of the Taoiseach is in compliance with the set target. Given that the general rate of unemployment is approximately 4% but the rate of unemployment among those with disabilities is approximately 60%, does the Taoiseach consider it appropriate that the objective of 3% be raised? Would he consider it to be a progressive step and has he discussed it with the Government? Is the Department of the Taoiseach fully accessible to those with disabilities? As a public building, would a person with a disability face problems accessing it?

The Taoiseach: Every year more work is carried out and the Department is now fully accessible. I have not heard of any difficulties. There is a dedicated parking facility for people with disabilities and this and other improvements have made the Department more accessible to them. That work is ongoing. Many agencies from inside and outside the Department came to discuss disability legislation and the building was accessible to people with disabilities. Accessibility is always difficult for those with disabilities but lifts and ramps help to make the Department accessible.

I used to deal with the 3% employment target for those with disabilities many years ago in the Department of Labour, but we should look not just at that figure. There is a member of my Department on the steering group but I am not up to date on its plans. We should not just work towards the 3% target, but should always try to improve it. The process in my Department, and in those in which I worked previously, was to ensure full equality. Persons who are eligible for employment under the criteria of the Civil Service should be treated equally. That should be done under any recruitment mechanism regardless of reaching the 3%.

Some Departments have reached or surpassed that target and there may be proposals in future to increase the target figure. On the point raised by Deputy Kenny, we should not, on reaching the 3% target, do nothing more. Where suitable opportunities exist we should try to employ those with disabilities because they find it more difficult to secure employment, particularly in the private sector.

Mr. Sargent: The number of public servants will be cut by 2,000 next year. Will the procedure being discussed to implement this cut in numbers - non-replacement of staff - be followed in the Department of the Taoiseach? Has the Taoiseach evaluated the effect of this Government measure on the performance of his Department? Members of staff there are currently overworked so how will those vacancies impact on the work of the Department?

I notice from the Estimates a rise of 9% in 2004 for salaries, wages, allowances and administrative costs. Is that due to the benchmarking increases and where does it fit in with the 28% additional costs - €1.25 million - for incidental expenses? What are incidental expenses? Do they have anything to do with the EU Presidency? A figure of €1 million has been earmarked for the EU Presidency. Will that include increased staff numbers, even on a temporary basis? Will the €1 million cover staffing costs?

I was interested to hear Deputy Kenny ask about the quota for disability. Will the Taoiseach update the House on the gender balance of staff in the Department?

3 o'clock

The Taoiseach: On the question of the Estimates, if the Deputy puts down a question I will give him the details of the subheads-----

Mr. Sargent: It is the Taoiseach's Department.

The Taoiseach: Yes, but this is a question on the staffing. I do not have the details on all the subheads with me. There are additional expenditures next year for the European Union under a number of subheads in my Department. The management group in my Department is responsible not alone for reducing numbers by 4% but also for ensuring that we maintain, within the modernisation programme, the same services. That is a question of management, it is part of the pay agreement and Departments have to manage it. That will be done. Staff costs in my Department in terms of increments, overtime and allowances, particularly next year, will be higher than in other years and those are some of the reasons for the increase at the staffing end. Next year the Department effectively will be open on a daily basis right through the Presidency. It has to be under the normal rules of the Presidency.

Mr. Sargent: What about the gender balance issue?

The Taoiseach: I do not have a breakdown of the actual number but I gave the figures on this previously. In most of the grades, the gender balance in the Department is close enough to 50:50. Even among the top grades in my Department there is a good gender balance, right up to assistant secretary general.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Does the Taoiseach agree that we should not accept under any circumstances the situation whereby more than 50% of households headed by a person with a disability or a long-term illness are living in relative income poverty? Does he accept that the Government, and perhaps his Department in particular, should be taking the lead in addressing this most unacceptable situation? Given that this is the European Year of People with Disabilities, what measures has the Taoiseach introduced in the course of this year, or that he proposes to introduce before the year's end, to properly mark this very special year to ensure there will be a positive legacy for people with disabilities as a result of measures he would take?

Am I correct in my understanding of the Taoiseach's earlier response that he accepts that the 3% recommendation on employment of people with disabilities should not be seen as a ceiling but rather a strengthening of that, which is what we want, and that it should be expanded on a continuous basis to tackle the serious situation whereby some 70% of people with disabilities are currently unemployed?

The Taoiseach: Under the existing code and criteria, when posts are being filled we should try to employ as many people with disabilities as we possibly can and, as mentioned by Deputy Kenny earlier, ensure that the facilities are put in place. The Civil Service code of practice for the employment of people with disabilities sets out clear criteria. All staff are recruited on an equal basis of opportunity. Staff are recruited through the Civil Service Commission on the grounds that they meet the requirements of the positions they are to fill. The issue of disability does not impede recruitment and no exceptions are made in my office in this regard. I do not believe they are made in any other Department either.

On the European Year of People with Disabilities, we have had an ongoing interest in that during the year. Additional resources were given to a number of areas and also to the campaign which I launched in January. We allocated resources to the public awareness campaign which covered many issues around making a difference in this area. I also announced some new areas of action some of which cover the public service, agencies and the private sector and including 100 ways of assisting disabled people. In my own Department special leave arrangements were granted to staff who volunteered to work during the Special Olympics. The disability liaison officer of the Department is an active member of the national co-ordination committee of the year. The Cabinet committee on social inclusion is also involved and has raised disability and equality issues in the context of promoting the year and assisting in its development. There has been a campaign based around information posters and newsletters which have been displayed in places throughout my Department and others. There is also a website from which staff can download information. We have offered assistance across a range of areas in the European Year of People with Disabilities.

Mr. F. McGrath: The Taoiseach should not forget the waiting lists for people with disabilities.

Mr. Rabbitte: There are two categories of staff in the Civil Service. The majority of civil servants come through the Civil Service competition, while others are appointed at the behest of the Minister. Can the Taoiseach indicate the number of staff who fall into the second category in his Department? When the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission is up and running, which I hope will be at the beginning of the new year, will all categories of staff, irrespective of the posts they hold in the Oireachtas and including those which, up to now, have been in the gift of each Minister, come under the aegis of the new commission?

The Taoiseach: As regards the breakdown of staff, most of the people are appointed through the Civil Service Commission, other than the grades I mentioned in my Department. However, that is a small number out of the 200 or so in the Department. I do not have the exact figure with me, but it is not a sizeable one. As regards the new commission, I understand the entire operation of the Houses of the Oireachtas will come within the control of the commission.

Mr. Rabbitte: As regards the 5% reduction, I am not clear about that or about tracing it within the House. I have read a number of times that the Minister for Finance has decreed that there shall be a 5% reduction in staff numbers in the public service. Is that the case and, if so, how is it proposed to implement it? Will it happen through natural wastage or the non-filling of vacancies?

The Taoiseach: My Department is required to achieve a reduction of 4% in overall staff numbers by 2005. We must do that as part of a process of achieving efficiencies and economies in the way we conduct our business. The process will be managed by the management group in the Department. It will probably not fill vacancies, but restructure each time to ensure we do not reduce the service. As part of the pay agreement, the service and the work must be shared out and managed between others to achieve higher productivity and efficiency and more modernisation within the Department. That is what we must do.

Mr. Rabbitte: The Department of the Taoiseach must achieve a reduction of 4%. Will that be achieved through the non-filling of vacancies? I presume the Department will not let people go.

The Taoiseach: No.

Mr. Rabbitte: By when must that 4% target be achieved and will it happen irrespective of the Presidency?

Mr. McCormack: It will be like the Hanly report in that it will take ten years.

The Taoiseach: It will happen irrespective of the Presidency. It will probably be done through the non-filling of posts, but there is also the transfer of posts, sections or units. However, there must be a reduction of 4% within the overall figures. The senior management group in the Department - the MAC - must manage it in such a way that service is not cut and difficulties or inefficiencies are not created. It must be done by 2005.

Mr. Rabbitte: Will it be 4% across the entire service?

Mr. Kenny: It is not often I agree with Deputy Ó Caoláin but I do in this instance.

Mr. F. McGrath: It is an historic moment.

Mr. Kenny: An historic moment indeed. A total of 55% of households headed by a person with a disability live below the poverty line. In 1994 the NESC and the Commission on the Status of People with Disabilities recommended that there be instituted a cost-of-disability payment to offset this imbalance. In 2000 a working group was set up under the PPF to examine the feasibility of such a payment and in 2002 An Agreed Programme for Government promised that the work of this group would be completed. It is almost three years since the working group was set up but it has not yet reported. Who chairs this group? What resources does this person have at his or her disposal? What is the problem that has prevented this working group from reporting after three years, given that it was based on a promise by Government to implement a cost-of-disability allowance? Is it not perfectly obvious, particularly to those in public life, that the link between poverty and disability is irrefutable? Would the Taoiseach not-----

An Ceann Comhairle: There are 79 questions for the Taoiseach to answer today.

Mr. McCormack: He will not answer one of them.

An Ceann Comhairle: The question the Deputy is now raising bears no relationship whatsoever to the question submitted.

Mr. McCormack: It does not matter. The Taoiseach will not answer the questions anyway.

An Ceann Comhairle: I suggest to all Members that they submit questions on the issues about which they are concerned.

Mr. Kenny: In that case-----

An Ceann Comhairle: This question refers specifically to the number of staff vacancies in the Taoiseach's Department.

Mr. Kenny: Is it not true, a Cheann Comhairle, that you have shown blatant favouritism to your constituency colleague?

An Ceann Comhairle: No, Deputy. The Chair spends far too much time intervening to try to confine Members to the question at issue.

Mr. Kenny: The public record of the Dáil will show that Deputy Ó Caoláin quite rightly asked a question about heads of households who are disabled. Not only that, but he was allowed to ask supplementaries.

An Ceann Comhairle: He referred to the Taoiseach's Department. The Deputy knows that Question Time cannot function effectively-----

Mr. McGinley: We are becoming sidetracked.

Mr. Kenny: If the Ceann Comhairle wants to narrow down the question to cover persons with disability working in the Taoiseach's Department, he may do so. He allowed Deputy Ó Caoláin to ask his question and a supplementary and he allowed the Taoiseach to answer, yet he wants to rule me out of order.

Mr. Durkan: It is very odd.

An Ceann Comhairle: As far as I can recall, Deputy Ó Caoláin referred specifically to the Taoiseach's Department.

Mr. Kenny: The Ceann Comhairle has never shown any kind of favouritism, nor would I accuse him of that. I want to continue with my question, if I may. Why has the working group not reported after three years?

Mr. McGinley: That is a very pertinent question. I hope the Taoiseach will give a full reply.

Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach and his Government have promised to implement a non-means tested cost of living disability allowance. Would the Taoiseach explain whether there is a difficulty with the working group?

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has gone well outside the scope of the question. I suggest he submit a question to the Minister responsible.

Mr. Kenny: Will he confirm that the promise made by his Government in the programme for Government will be implemented? That is a perfectly valid question and the Taoiseach should answer it.

Mr. McGinley: Does he know what promises mean?

The Taoiseach: If the Deputy wants an answer about a particular working group he should put down a question to the relevant Minister. Without waiting for any report this Government has provided resources towards the education of people with disabilities, whether through classroom assistants or additional special needs teachers. From having a few hundred special needs teachers in the entire country a few years ago, we now have about 6,000. We used to spend only a few million a year on disability grants but the figure in the last budget was about €40 million. In the area of local authority housing there has been a huge increase in funding.

Mr. McCormack: Local authorities have no money for disability grants.

The Taoiseach: In a range of Departments people are not waiting around to see the report. The resources being put into education, the environment and the health service to help people with disabilities are astronomical.

Mr. McGinley: They are at a standstill.

The Taoiseach: The increases have been of the order of thousands of percent over the last three years. We did not require a report to do this. The Deputy can put down a question about the working group to which he refers but over that time the Government went ahead and implemented change at enormous cost to the State. That was the right thing to do.

Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach's reply has itself strayed far and wide over what is covered by the question.

An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Mr. Kenny: I want to make a comment about what the Taoiseach said.

An Ceann Comhairle: I suggest that the Deputy submit a question on the matter and find another way of commenting on it. Raising questions that are totally unrelated is making a mockery of Question Time. The Chair tries to be as fair as possible in allowing Deputies to expand on questions.

Mr. Kenny: As the Chair has pointed out, he has no control over answers given by Ministers or the Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is correct.

Mr. Kenny: I commend some of the schemes-----

An Ceann Comhairle: There is an obligation on the Chair to ensure that questions refer specifically to the questions submitted.

Mr. Kenny: For many elderly people applying for disabled person's grants or essential repairs grant, no money is available.

Mr. McGinley: There is an embargo on applications.

Mr. Durkan: It is a woeful record.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has moved well outside the realm of the question.

Priority Questions.

National Stadium.

80. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if he has considered the report by a company (details supplied) on the Ove Arup report commissioned by the IRFU and the FAI on the provision of a stadium for rugby and soccer; if he has presented his assessment to Cabinet; if a decision will be made on the way forward to provide a new stadium before the end of 2003; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27583/03]

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. O'Donoghue): I am aware that there is widespread support in this House, as much as outside of it, for the provision of adequate stadium facilities at national level for Irish field sports. Following an active programme of investment by the Government in sporting facilities nationwide, this remains the one major gap that needs to be addressed. This need is acknowledged by Government and it has been my task as Minister with responsibility for sport to find the most efficient and effective means of delivering additional stadium facilities while at the same time satisfying the needs of the various sporting bodies concerned.

In response to my invitation, the IRFU and the FAI commissioned Arup Consultants to draw up prioritised proposals to meet the need of both organisations for modern stadium accommodation. The Arup report evaluated stadium development options at five locations, including Lansdowne Road, Newlands Cross and Abbotstown. This report has been subjected to detailed examination by the Office of Public Works, my technical advisers on the project. I received the OPW's comprehensive analysis of the Arup report in mid-September. Since then, in addition to firming up my own conclusions on the issues highlighted in the Arup and OPW studies, I have had further discussions and consultations with interested parties. In this regard I am conscious that the matter is daily becoming more pressing.

Earlier this year a representative of FIFA who visited Lansdowne Road indicated that FIFA would not be prepared to waive its rules relating to the requirement that Ireland's qualifying matches for the next world cup, which commence in 2004, must be played in an all-seater stadium. There is an urgent imperative that suitable, safe and secure accommodation is provided for these matches and the Government is focused on meeting this need. There are a number of options by which this commitment can be met. As Minister, it has been my task to consider carefully the negative as well as the positive aspects of each of these potential solutions. Not only does a stadium represent a considerable investment of resources but it is a long-term project and therefore must be suitable for both present needs and future requirements. My Department has obtained a thorough assessment of a range of solutions, ensuring that all aspects of the project have been taken into account and that cost estimates are appropriately robust.

With regard to the proposals put forward jointly by the FAI and the IRFU, I am awaiting final input on one or two specific issues which I expect to have by the end of this month. When this material is available, I will embark on the formal process of consultations with my Cabinet colleagues on my proposals for dealing with the acknowledged need of both the FAI and the IRFU for modern stadium accommodation. Until such time as the Government has reached a decision on these proposals, I do not intend to make further policy statements on this matter.

Mr. Deenihan: Almost four years ago, in January 2000, the Government announced its intention of providing an 80,000-seat stadium. Surely it is now decision time. On 8 October the Minister told the House he would bring a memorandum to Government seeking a decision soon. Will the Minister define what "soon" means? How soon will this be done? Does the Minister agree that in the absence of a decision on this, both the IRFU and the FAI are losing considerable sums of money?

Mr. O'Donoghue: Again, I acknowledge the support of the principal Opposition parties for the national stadium measure. I have indicated that it is intended to bring a memorandum to the Government soon. Recently, I had a meeting with the IRFU at which it was indicated that the organisation required to make a further submission. I am disposed towards listening to what the IRFU and any other sporting organisation has to say. It is my intention to bring the memorandum to Government at the earliest opportunity. There is little point in my doing so until I have all the required information to hand. At that point the memorandum will be brought before the Government and it is a matter for the Government to make a decision.

I agree with Deputy Deenihan that the IRFU and the FAI are at a substantial revenue loss as a result of the fact that their facilities are, at present, inadequate. I hope the situation can be rectified. I will put the options to the Government and it is a matter for the Government to make a decision in due course.

Mr. Deenihan: The OPW employed the consultants Davis Langdon PKS to evaluate the Arup report, which came out on the side of Lansdowne Road as the ideal location for a stadium. In view of the fact that Davis Langdon PKS were also the consultants for the Abbotstown project, does the Minister not see a conflict of interest in employing consultants to evaluate a proposal which is contradictory to the one they were promoting?

Mr. O'Donoghue: I am not aware of any report which comes down definitively in favour of Lansdowne Road.

Mr. Deenihan: The Arup report did so.

Mr. O'Donoghue: I know that Davis Langdon PKS was involved in reporting on the viability of a redeveloped Lansdowne Road as a venue for the new national stadium and that they also had an involvement in reporting on the viability of a new stadium at Abbotstown. The company in question acted as project managers for CSID Limited during the construction of the National Aquatic Centre. That contract ended in July 2003. The company was consulted for its technical expertise by OPW during its examination of the Arup report, which set out the IRFU-FAI proposals for stadium development. I am confident that the company carried out its work in a professional manner and I have no reason to complain about it.

National Community Games.

81. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if he will enter into discussions with the community games organisation to assist in its efforts to acquire a permanent home for the national annual games; if his attention has been drawn to the tremendous value to the community at large of the community games; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27386/03]

Mr. O'Donoghue: I wish to make it clear that the responsibility for providing a permanent home for any organisation rests with the organisation itself. As the Deputy may be aware, however, I have met representatives of the national community games on a number of occasions to discuss with them their ideas about securing a permanent location for holding the finals of the national community games in the future. In the course of these discussions a number of possibilities were mentioned and I understand that consideration of these options by the organisation is continuing. I remain available to support these efforts in whatever way I can. I will meet representatives of the organisation tomorrow.

As the Deputy will also be aware, the organisation has held its annual games at Mosney holiday camp in County Meath. When I was Minister for Justice I facilitated arrangements for the continued use of Mosney camp for the national finals in 2002. The finals were held there again this year and I witnessed at first hand the widespread support and enthusiasm which the games engender. I am informed that the Reception and Integration Agency, which has entered into an agreement with the owner of Mosney holiday centre for the accommodation of asylum seekers, is prepared to make every effort to facilitate the continued holding of the community games at Mosney and I welcome this decision.

I acknowledge that the ESB national community games promotes and encourages sport and activity among young people in Ireland and is a very important element of sport development in Ireland. Up to 500,000 children participate in events each year. The organisation encourages participation and involvement in different sports and activities. This is its 36th year of existence and it has been responsible for introducing thousands of young Irish people to sport.

The Irish Sports Council has been very supportive of the community games and has allocated funding totalling €500,000 over the past two years. However, these funds are for the continued development of their sports.

Mr. Wall: I am pleased to note that the Minister will meet representatives of the community games tomorrow. Mosney has always been the home for the community games. Does the Minister agree that the fact that the Government has a lease on the facility makes Mosney the ideal place for the further development of the community games, not alone for the three weekends of the finals but as a home for the ongoing process of developing the community games throughout the year?

Will the Minister investigate, with the community games organisation, the possibility of developing Mosney as the permanent home of the games? Representatives of the organisation have assured me that if the games are moved from Mosney they would become fragmented and would lose the impetus they have gained over many years. That would be detrimental to an event which is enjoyed by many children and which is working well. We should ensure that every effort is made to continue the lease on Mosney and to develop the camp as a permanent home for the community games and for community involvement.

Mr. O'Donoghue: Were it not for the efforts of the Reception and Integration Agency and the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the games would have left Mosney by now. I acknowledge the role of the agency and its director in ensuring the continuance of the games at Mosney. It is desirable that the games continue at Mosney, an ideal location for them. Difficulties have arisen in relation to leasing arrangements at Mosney. It is difficult at this remove to envisage a better location. It is also difficult to envisage how funding could be put in place to provide an alternative location. It would not be possible to make a large capital sum available from my Department, for example, because funding of that nature is not available in the Estimates and is unlikely to be available in the future.

I will meet the community games organisers again tomorrow to discuss how we might progress this matter. I agree with Deputy Wall that the ideal solution would be the continuance of the games at Mosney and I will seek, in tandem with the representatives of the community games, to progress this proposal and encourage it in every way I can.

Sports Capital Programme.

82. Mr. Connolly asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the Government's views on the commitment in the programme for Government to facilitate the provision by local authorities of public swimming pools and other leisure facilities such as sports halls, tennis courts and municipal golf courses; the progress to date on their completion; the status of the application of Monaghan swimming pool; the funding allocated to date for their provision; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27385/03]

Mr. O'Donoghue: Under the national lottery-funded sports capital programme administered by my Department, funding is allocated to projects which provide sports and recreational facilities at local, regional and national level. While the majority of the funding allocated under the programme goes to voluntary and community groups, grant assistance is also approved for projects submitted by local authorities. For example, under the 2003 programme, grants to the value of €6.5 million were allocated to ten municipal projects, either directly to local authorities or to projects where the local authority was working in partnership with a sports club or a community organisation. In this regard, I wish to make it clear that I see it as an important objective of sports policy to support multi-sport centres under the management and control of local authorities. Of course, such projects must, like all others, comply with the terms and conditions of the sports capital programme.

Examples of multi-sport centre projects allocated funding under the sports capital programme in recent years include those for Finglas, Ballymun, Monkstown and Ringsend in Dublin and Waterford city, Navan, Trim, Carlow, Letterkenny, Sligo, Ennis, Athlone, Ballina and Portlaoise. Of these, the Athlone sports centre, which includes a swimming pool, has been completed and is open to the public, while those for Ballymun, Finglas, Letterkenny and Portlaoise, apart from receiving grants through the sports capital programme, plan to include swimming pools in the overall sports complex and have applied for funding to that end under the local authority swimming pool programme, which is also administered by my Department.

Applications for funding under the 2004 sports capital programme will be invited at the end of the month. All applications received will be evaluated against the programme's assessment criteria, which are outlined in the guidelines, terms and conditions of the programme. Following this assessment process it is likely that further municipal projects may be selected for funding.

Under the local authority swimming pool programme, there are four stages in a swimming pool project, following the submission of a feasibility study. These, in order of progress, are preliminary report, contract documents, tender and construction. My Department's technical adviser, the Office of Public Works, evaluates each stage and local authorities cannot proceed to the next stage of a project unless prior approval is issued from my Department.

The maximum grant available under the programme is €3.8 million, subject to the total grant not exceeding 80% of the eligible cost of the project or, in the case of projects located in designated disadvantaged areas, 90% of the eligible cost. Grant aid is allocated only when tenders have been approved for the project and the grant amount is capped at the time of allocation. Support is available towards the cost of the swimming pool, toddler pool, sauna and steam room.

The provision in my Department's 2004 Estimate for the local authority swimming pool programme is €15 million, an increase of 67% on the Estimate provision of €9 million for this year. Expenditure under the programme in 2002 was €3.9 million. It is expected that the allocation of €9 million for this year will be fully utilised.

Since becoming Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism in June 2002, I have approved grant aid of €13.1 million for five swimming pool projects which include one new pool, one replacement pool and three refurbishments. These projects are located in Grove Island in Limerick, Finglas in Dublin, Clonmel in County Tipperary and Tralee in County Kerry. Two of the projects are located in Tralee, namely, the Aquadome and Tralee Regional Sports and Leisure Centre.

The position on the Monaghan swimming pool project is that, in February of this year, given the special circumstances arising from the enforced closure of Monaghan's only local authority pool, I decided to allow the local authority submit a proposal on a swimming pool under the current programme. A feasibility study, representing the initial phase in the process, has been submitted by Monaghan Town Council and is under consideration in my Department.

The Government intends, as it committed in An Agreed Programme for Government, to put in place a long-term strategic plan to ensure the development of sports facilities throughout the country. The first step in this process has commenced with a review of the sports capital programme under the Department's expenditure review programme. The purpose of this review is to establish what has been achieved under this programme in recent years with a view to identifying gaps in the existing provision and procedures and setting priorities for the future. The expenditure review will be completed by the end of this year.

A similar review of the local authority swimming pool programme has recently commenced and the results of both will feed into the overall strategic plan for the provision of sports facilities.

Mr. Connolly: I had this question framed before I was aware we were meeting the Minister tomorrow to discuss Monaghan swimming pool. I appreciate what he has said so far. I did not want to take all the credit for tomorrow's meeting in advance.

Given the Government's commitment to invest in sports facilities, particularly at local level, and its recognition that clubs of all codes remain the backbone of Irish sport, how far has the programme advanced and has any national audit been carried out? We are a quarter of the way into the Government's term of office and one would have expected that any action that was to take place would have taken place by now. We had a pool in Monaghan for 29 years and it is now closed and in a state of disrepair. We need grant aid for it. What is the position nationally?

Mr. O'Donoghue: Nationally, there has been a great increase in the money made available for sport. A sum of €17 million was made available in 1997 while this year's budget is in the order of €176 million. Everybody would agree that this is a substantial and welcome step forward.

On the provision of sports facilities nationally, a review is being carried out to assess needs, identify gaps that require filling and see where we can enhance the programme. It is anticipated that this audit will be completed in a professional manner and will allow for a correct overview of the situation. It is true that there is a need for such an audit. There are often complaints to the effect that one area was successful in providing a facility and another was not. It is important that we have an idea of where facilities are required and that we then move to put them in place. We expect the results of the audit to be very informative.

Mr. Connolly: We have discussed the national spatial strategy in the context of giving specific consideration to smaller towns in rural areas. When one provides amenities such as sports facilities and swimming pools in small towns, it makes them more desirable places in which to live. Children must be taken off the streets in these towns. There is a great chance that they will use the facilities if they are put in place.

Mr. O'Donoghue: The idea behind the CLÁR programme was to achieve the objective which Deputy Connolly has set out. In addition, the RAPID programme assists in the same way in urban centres. Over the years we have sought to ensure that the money was spread as evenly as possible. To give the Deputy an idea of how successful this has been, in 1998, for example, the allocation nationally under the sports capital grant programme was €7,554,942 and the average grant was €30,711. This year, the funding allocated was €53,136,000 and the average grant was €85,981. To date, 3,522 grants have been made available across the country.

Although I admit that, from year to year, one area may say another was successful while it was not, on balance we are achieving the kind of equilibrium that was originally envisaged for the scheme. Small towns are being provided with facilities they could not have envisaged five years ago.

Tourism Industry.

83. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the measures he intends to put in place to improve the competitiveness of Irish tourism, following the recent publication by the tourism policy review group of the report, New Horizons for Irish Tourism; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27387/03]

Mr. O'Donoghue: I have already expressed my determination to ensure that the excellent work of the tourism policy review group is capitalised upon and the momentum generated by the in-depth focus on the tourism industry continues apace in the development of the tourism sector over the coming decade.

The review group emphasised the need for an agenda for action, highlighting some 70 concrete actions that should be pursued within the first two year rolling plan. Its recommendations are directed not only to my Department, the tourism State agencies and other Departments but also, perhaps more importantly, to representatives of the tourism industry and individual tourism enterprises. Restoring competitiveness is regarded as the major challenge facing the industry in the years ahead.

The report recognises that competitiveness is not just about pricing but that it must be a function of the overall Irish tourism experience for customers relative to other locations, beginning with their initial inquiries about visiting Ireland through to their travelling here, where they go when they arrive, where they stay, who they meet, what they do, what they see, and their perceptions about price and quality.

One of the key messages of the report is that an increasingly high proportion of visitors have expressed concerns about competitiveness, and the industry should recognise that it has primary responsibility for offering better value to its customers if it is to maximise the opportunities for future growth.

There is no immediate, single or easy solution. Having identified competitiveness and value for money as one of the key strategic drivers of success for Irish tourism, the review group listed some ten specific actions to deliver the strategy. These require responses from both the private and public sectors, and they include proposals on taking responsibility for restoring competitiveness, inflation, benchmarking, customer relations, management capability, high standards for competitive advantage and training.

None of the ten specific recommendations on competitiveness listed in the report is directed to me or my Department. However, my primary role is to ensure that a coherent action plan is implemented quickly and effectively. To this end, and on receiving the report from the chairman of the review group, I have made a commitment to establish a small high level implementation group to drive forward and monitor the action plan. Earlier this month, I received the considered response of the key industry representative group, the Irish Tourist Industry Confederation, to the report and, more recently, its views on the shape of the implementation group. I am considering these and hope to be in a position shortly to announce the membership of the group.

Mr. Deenihan: The Minister will agree that the competitiveness of the tourism industry has been decimated. We are now the second most expensive of the 15 European Union member states, whereas we were the fifth least expensive country in 1999. The main reason for this change has been increased Government taxation. Our hotel VAT rate, at 13.5%, is the second highest in the eurozone. The equivalent rates in France, Spain and Portugal are 5.5%, 7% and 5%, respectively. We also have the highest wine tax, second highest beer tax and third highest tax on spirits in Europe, while our insurance premiums have increased six times faster than other European countries. All these increases have been influenced by the Government. Will the Minister give the House a commitment that the problem of Government taxes will be addressed in the budget, which offers a real opportunity to restore the competitiveness of the tourism industry? What plans does the Minister for Finance have to restore competitiveness in the budget? I noted that the Minister, in an interview with a national newspaper, recommended that VAT rates be frozen this year.

Mr. O'Donoghue: Given his considerable experience as a Member of the House, Deputy Deenihan will not expect me to read the Minister for Finance's budget speech on a Tuesday afternoon in November. I can, however, address in a provisional manner some of the questions he raised. Since becoming Minister, I have repeatedly addressed the question of competitiveness, which we need to improve. One only had to attend the World Travel Market 2003 in London last week to see the number of new competitors which have entered the marketplace. We are under no illusions in this regard. Tourism is a tough environment and competitiveness is the key to attracting a greater number of visitors.

The fall in inflation to 2.3% is welcome. We must avoid talking ourselves into a crisis or depression, particularly in light of the fact that tourism numbers, against a difficult backdrop, look like they will increase by more than 3% this year, which is a great tribute to the resilience of the industry and testament to the value of the 20% increase in marketing funding made available to Tourism Ireland and Bord Fáilte.

As Deputy Deenihan correctly pointed out, insurance is a serious problem for the industry and must be addressed. The issue is targeted by the review group and Fáilte Ireland is working as a priority to find ways to help businesses reduce their cost base and make them more competitive and profitable. As a first step, Fáilte Ireland has commissioned risk and insurance specialists to gather, with the assistance of the representative groups, all data on premiums and claims experienced across the sector, from bed and breakfast providers to restaurants and hotels. Drilling down into this data will give the organisation the information it requires to engage in informed dialogue with insurers to address the massive hikes in premiums since 2000. It has been estimated that this approach could deliver savings of up to one third for tourism enterprises in time for the 2004 season.

The industry is also becoming increasingly price conscious in terms of delivering value for money for visitors. Although the industry has listened to me, Opposition spokespersons, other Deputies and others, it is difficult for it to deliver the kind of value of money to which we all aspire when it is faced with rising costs in areas such as insurance. I expect the first phase of Fáilte Ireland's project to be completed by December and I hope it will be successful in its efforts to reduce insurance premiums for the sector.

Mr. Deenihan: Our inflation rate is still twice the European Union average. We must also take into account the recent appreciation of the euro by 18.9% against the dollar and 11.7% against sterling, which reduces the competitiveness of holidays here in our two main markets.

On the issue of local authority charges, it is obvious that local authorities will have to increase charges twofold or more to pay the cost of benchmarking. This will impose a major burden on the tourism industry which pays most of the rates and charges levied in rural counties. There is a case for the Government to provide funding to cover the costs of benchmarking incurred by local authorities. Failure to do so would force up local authority charges and increase costs for the tourism industry.

It has been confirmed that those involved in the tourism sector are making less profit now than five years ago. Significant discounting is taking place across the industry in an effort to maintain cashflow. Despite an increase in visitors, revenue will decrease this year, by a substantial amount in some cases. Various local authorities will soon strike new rates, refuse charges and water charges. Increases are inevitable to cover the cost of the benchmarking payment. On behalf of the tourism industry, I ask the Minister to make a special case to the Cabinet that central funds be used to cover some of this cost, which the Government imposed on local authorities.

Mr. O'Donoghue: As the Estimates have been published, there is no point in revisiting them. Moreover, issues related to local authorities are a matter for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The tourism review group's excellent report makes more than 70 recommendations. I will ensure that the group's proposals, in so far as they affect my Department and the agencies within its remit, will be implemented. In addition, we are pursuing the active implementation of the other recommendations through a high level implementation group which will be formed in the coming weeks. It is the intention of the implementation group to report within six months and to hold a forum one year after submitting its report to identify progress in implementing the expert group's report. This is a two year rolling plan and I anticipate that the review group's report will be largely implemented and will make a substantial contribution to the development of tourism.

Ancillary matters such as charges are, unfortunately, a matter for other Ministers. I am conscious, however, of the need to keep charges as low as possible. The Deputy should note that in an attitude of visitors survey carried out in 2002, only 4% of those questioned were not satisfied with their holiday experience here, which speaks volumes for the industry and the product.

Tax Code.

84. Aengus Ó Snodaigh asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism his views on the recommendations of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service on the retention of the section 481 tax relief for the film industry. [27633/03]

Mr. O'Donoghue: I share the view of the joint committee that for strong economic and cultural reasons the Government should continue to promote and foster film as a high value, high knowledge, highly-skilled industry. I have also made no secret of my view that the section 481 scheme is important for the maintenance of a viable film industry. I am in dialogue with the Minister for Finance on all of the issues arising in this context. These discussions will take account of all relevant inputs, including the detailed recommendations of the joint committee and the PricewaterhouseCoopers report jointly commissioned by my Department and the Irish Film Board, which is being considered in the Department of Finance.

The joint committee highlighted the problem of abuse and while we must be careful not to tar the legitimate majority with the same brush as the abusing minority, I share its concern. We can no longer afford to have such an important industry threatened by people who refuse to abide by the rules and we will root them out. I do not wish to comment further on the details of the committee's recommendations until my discussions with the Minister for Finance have concluded.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: I welcome the Minister's support for the recommendations. They were the result of all-party agreement in the committee. I went slightly further in the committee by asking that section 481 be extended further than the three years recommended by the committee to ensure continuity and certainty. Is the Minister of the view that we should extend this provision over a longer term so it will not arise again in three years, should the committee's recommendations be accepted?

The other suggestion I made in the committee was that instead of examining the cap on investment, consideration should be given to an immediate doubling of the cap in the overall review of section 481 suggested by the committee. An immediate increase in the cap would encourage the making of more films in Ireland. Does the Minister believe it is logical to encourage 3,000 students to undertake film industry courses when there is no certainty that there will be jobs for them when they complete their studies? Many of them will have to emigrate to find work if section 481 is ended.

Mr. O'Donoghue: Section 481 was one of the most innovative proposals for the film industry to emanate from Europe for many decades. It has served the Irish film industry well. It ensured that the industry prospered and grew to its current level where it employs approximately 4,500 people. The industry has gone from strength to strength. Indigenous Irish film making has been underpinned by the efforts of the Irish Film Board in recent years and I was glad to provide a substantial increase of 9% in the board's funding for next year in the Estimates for my Department.

Section 481 has benefited the Irish film industry. The question is where we go from here. The Minister for Finance deemed it necessary to announce, in last year's budget, the termination of the scheme as of end December 2004. It is important to examine the reasons for that decision and to acknowledge that there were reasons for it. There is little doubt that there has been abuse of the scheme and if I were to ignore that, it would signal the certain end of section 481. I and the Irish Film Board commissioned a report from PricewaterhouseCoopers on the effect of section 481 on the film industry and specifically on whether it was of benefit to the general economy. I forwarded this document to the Minister for Finance and he is giving it his consideration at present. It is my intention to meet the Minister again soon to discuss the matter.

The Deputy asked about an extension of time for section 481. Film makers plan their films far in advance and it is important that they have a long lead-in period. The longer they have to plan their project, the better. In that context, the longer the period of extension for section 481, the greater prospects there are for attracting high budget feature films. There is a strong argument for increasing the cap of €10,480,000 on the amount that may be invested under section 481. I agree with Deputy Ó Snodaigh in that respect. If the cap were increased, there would be a greater probability of attracting higher budget films to Ireland. That, in turn, would have a positive ripple effect on the economy generally and an unquantifiable benefit in so far as advertising the country on a broader stage is concerned.

I am particularly glad that young people have chosen in recent years to get involved in the exciting film industry. I would be saddened if they were discouraged from doing so as a result of the termination of the section 481 relief. The Minister for Finance has made his case about section 481 in a fair way. He has been careful to listen to the industry and to what I have had to say about it. This dialogue, in the context of consideration of the PricewaterhouseCoopers report, will continue. I do not believe it is the intention of the Minister for Finance to destroy the film industry or to see it retrench. However, he has a duty to the taxpayer to ensure that if reliefs are given, they are not abused by unscrupulous people to the detriment of the majority who have dedicated their lives to a thriving Irish film industry.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: The Minister's last comment is covered by the recommendations, which state that the extension should include the elimination of all forms of abuse. I wish the Minister well in his continued dialogue with the Minister for Finance. I look forward to publication of the PricewaterhouseCoopers report as soon as possible so we will then be aware of its contents and the information on which the Minister will base his final decision. There is a significant link between the arts and tourism sectors and the film industry. It is a pity the section 481 relief is within the remit of the Department of Finance because I believe this Minister would be more favourable towards its retention over a longer period. Has a study been carried out on the loss of revenue for small areas which have been deserted by tourists and which are now dependent on films being made there? I have in mind areas in Wicklow and around Dingle, which have benefited occasionally from film making when the tourism industry is collapsing.

Mr. O'Donoghue: There has been no such study. However, far from retrenching, the film industry and the number of film projects in Ireland have been growing, and I sincerely hope this growth will be allowed to continue.

OTHER QUESTIONS.

Tourism Industry.

85. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the consideration he has given to the implementation of the recommendations of the report of the tourism policy review group, New Horizons for Irish Tourism: An Agenda for Action; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27205/03]

86. Mr. Murphy asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism his plan of action to activate the 70 individual recommended actions contained in the tourism policy review group report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27366/03]

Mr. O'Donoghue: I propose to take Questions Nos. 85 and 86 together.

I refer Deputies to my response to the priority question earlier in which I outlined the current position and next steps in the setting up of the high level implementation group to drive forward and monitor the comprehensive action plan recommended by the tourism policy review group. With regard to the recommendations directed at my Department and the State tourism agencies, a number of the actions are already under way. The tourism unit of the Department has been reconfigured, advertisements seeking expressions of interest in the national conference centre have been placed in the media and bilateral consultations have taken place with the Department of Finance on taxation issues and with the Department of Health and Children on the anti-smoking regulations.

I have been advised that Fáilte Ireland is taking account of the relevant recommended actions and suggested timescales, set out in the report of the review group, in its operational planning for the remainder of this year and next year. In addition, Fáilte Ireland has announced a new initiative to address the cost of insurance across the sector in co-operation with industry representative groups, including the Irish Hotels Federation and the Restaurants Association of Ireland. Similarly, Tourism Ireland Limited has completed an examination of the recommendations in the report that impact on areas within its remit, and has incorporated a number of these into its three year marketing strategy and detailed operating plan for 2004.

4 o'clock

Mr. Wall: The Minister will shortly enter what will probably be the most important period of his term of office when Ireland takes over the Presidency of the EU. What aspect of the Presidency will be helpful in overcoming our difficulties with competitiveness and the perception that Ireland is an expensive country for tourists etc.? As many important meetings will be held in Ireland, it will be an ideal opportunity to portray Ireland as a tourism attraction within the EU. How can the Minister and other members of the Cabinet use their position to portray Ireland in a positive light? Have there been meetings on portraying Ireland in a positive light as we prepare for what will be the most important six months in the lifetime of the Government and during the Minister's term of office as Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism?

Mr. O'Donoghue: I am pleased Deputy Wall has addressed this question because the first six months of next year, during which Ireland will hold the Presidency of the European Union, represents an ideal opportunity to portray Ireland in the most positive manner possible on the European stage. In that context, we are currently formulating a comprehensive cultural programme which will illustrate the best of Irish traditional culture. This means 1 May will be a very special day when we will celebrate the accession of ten new countries to the European Union. I have written to ten towns throughout Ireland, through their councils, requesting they participate on that day in the celebrations. I have offered to make funding available to the towns in question to the tune of approximately €50,000 each. It will culminate on the evening in question in a major concert in Dublin which I trust will be relayed by RTE television and through the European Broadcasting Union across the European Union.

In addition, we have planned various other cultural events and exhibitions. Some of these will take place in Brussels and others will take place in Ireland. I am pleased the Presidency coincides with the Bloomsday Festival which will commence in April and continue to the end of August, climaxing on 16 June 2004, when major celebrations are planned in and around Dublin. This is a comprehensive cultural programme which will portray Ireland in the most positive light possible. There is a relatively generous allocation from the Department of Finance, through the good graces of the Minister, Deputy McCreevy. We will take the opportunity of holding forth all that is good and great about Ireland.

Mr. Deenihan: In response to Deputy Ó Snodaigh, the Minister said he was having discussions with the Minister for Finance regarding section 481. In a similar response to my previous question he said he would not pre-empt the budget. Is this a contradiction? Given that one of the recommendations of this fine report is that the Government should tackle VAT and excise duties, there is an onus on the Minister and the Minister for Finance to do something in the budget about this issue. If there is a clear implementation strategy and timeframe surely it must begin with the budget. This whole exercise will be futile unless there is a response to excise duty and VAT in the budget.

A strong recommendation has been made in the report on human resources. Will the Minister outline his policy on the development of human resources in the tourism industry given that many of our personnel are brought into this country because of a lack of chefs, receptionists and other expertise?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy must be brief.

Mr. Deenihan: The Minister said the national conference centre is one of the facilities he has put in place. There was an announcement in one of yesterday's newspapers that a private investor is going ahead with a conference facility which will cater for approximately 16,000 people. Given that the Minister's conference centre will cater for approximately 2,000 people, is it a waste of a resource if this fine facility goes ahead in Dublin? I would like his views on going ahead with a facility that will cater for just 2,000 people when a private investor will cater for 16,000 people, including other ancillary facilities?

Mr. O'Donoghue: On the issue of the conference centre, I cannot prevent anyone in the private sector from bringing forward proposals, obtaining planning permission and constructing a conference centre or any other edifice. However, I want to be clear about one thing, the Government is proceeding with the construction of a national conference centre. It has been advertised and we are awaiting expressions of interest. I anticipate this conference centre will be worth in excess of €50 million to the tourism industry in the greater Dublin area in years to come. The objective is to try to have the conference centre completed by the end of 2007.

On indirect taxes, it is important to point out that Ireland is one of the lowest taxed economies in Europe. This is due in the main to the good work of the Minister for Finance since 1997, which should be acknowledged. In addition, corporation tax at 12.5% is extremely low. Tax on business generally is low compared to other countries.

On section 481 and the budget, given that I could not give Deputy Deenihan any promises in regard to indirect taxes, neither could I give Deputy Ó Snodaigh any guarantees or promises in regard to section 481, so there is no contradiction.

Deputy Deenihan's question on the recruitment of young people into the tourism industry is tremendously important. There are a number of areas where Fáilte Ireland can play a key role in this regard. In so far as training courses are concerned, it is important that Fáilte Ireland should make it an objective that graduates from Fáilte Ireland operate or support courses which are proficient in the use and application of new technologies in the industry. In regard to recruitment itself, it has been recognised that we should establish a tourism career promotions group comprising key stakeholders, including students, to formulate a national recruitment plan designed to strengthen linkages with schools, communities and career guidance services.

Mr. Deenihan: The Minister is seeking expressions of interest. He may recall in September 2002 when he looked for similar expressions of interest for the national stadium that what he received was not attractive. Regarding expressions of interest in this instance, what will be the Government's input? Will this facility be solely built by the private sector or will it be a public private partnership? If he does not receive expressions of interest, will he go ahead in some other form with the national conference centre?

Mr. O'Donoghue: To say the least, I expect the expressions of interest to be far more interesting in the sense that the successful bidder will be guaranteed a customer, which will be the State. In other words, the State will lease the conference centre from the successful tenderer. It is intended that the conference centre will be built in its entirety by the private sector. It is true that the State may retain, in the course of negotiations, an option to purchase the entire centre at a given date in the future. For example, during my time as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Midlands Prison was constructed and financed by the private sector. It was leased back to the State and the State had an option to purchase, which worked very well. This scheme, which I admit is relatively complicated in terms of its legal definitions and so on, can work equally well.

Arts Funding.

87. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if his attention has been drawn to the extent of job losses caused by cuts in funding for the Arts Council; the steps he is taking to address this matter; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27208/03]

89. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if his attention has been drawn to the concerns regarding restrictions in funding for the arts; his plans to provide additional supports for the arts in 2003; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27372/03]

92. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the steps he is taking to reverse the cutbacks being experienced by the arts sector; his funding priorities in this regard for 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27206/03]

93. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism his plans to restore the funding strategy upon which the current 2002 to 2006 arts plan is founded. [27377/03]

100. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if there are plans to implement multi-annual funding for arts along with the provision of adequate resources to enable this to take place. [27373/03]

109. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if there are plans to implement multi-annual funding for arts along with the provision of adequate resources to enable this to take place. [27375/03]

113. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if he has made a submission for funding of €53 million to the Arts Council in 2004. [27383/03]

114. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if the pre-budget submission of the Arts Council has been drawn to the Government's attention and discussed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27216/03]

Mr. O'Donoghue: I propose to take Questions Nos. 87, 89, 92, 93, 100, 109, 113 and 114 together.

Deputies will be aware that the council will receive funding of €52.5 million in 2004, a 19% increase in 2004 on 2003 funding levels. This level of funding clearly demonstrates the extent of the Government's commitment to the arts. This allocation took account of all pertinent factors, including the views expressed by the Arts Council in advance of the publication of the Book of Estimates.

The reduction in funding for the Arts Council in 2003 was a direct function of the far more difficult conditions that applied in the economy generally and especially in the public finances. I am well aware of the difficulties that have arisen for those in the arts sector because of the unavoidable decisions that had to be taken by the Arts Council as a consequence of the reduction in funding this year. However, I point out that, although the Arts Council's funding was reduced this year by around 7.5% on the 2002 figure, that 2002 figure was the culmination of steady year on year increases since 1997. Arts Council funding increased by more than 80% between 1997 and 2002.

The arts plan is a council, not a Government, strategy, and although the Government endorsed the principles on which the plan was based, this endorsement did not extend to commitment to the annual financial targets set out in the plan. The amount that the Government can provide for the Arts Council is dependent on the Estimates process, which is based on an annual cycle. This system cannot accommodate multi-annual commitments because the availability of funds are known with any certainty for only one year in advance.

Mr. Wall: Will the Minister accept that 1,000 jobs have been lost due to cuts in the allocation of funding to the Arts Council for 2003? That is a frightening figure for the Arts Council, although it did not give a breakdown of the sectors involved. That is a huge loss to the sector. This reflects also on the tourism industry given that many of the jobs are in entertainment and different sectors of the arts. Does the Minister accept that 1,000 jobs have been lost and, if so, has the Arts Council informed him of the sectors involved? What efforts can the Minister make through his Department in terms of the funding available to rectify the matter in the coming year?

Mr. O'Donoghue: Deputy Wall is correct when he asserts that there were job losses as a result of the reduction in Arts Council funding last year. I have always been clear on the point that there was a great deal of disappointment in the arts sector about the 8% reduction in funding last year. It is a matter of which I am acutely aware. Throughout the year I availed of the opportunity to meet those involved in the arts sector. I have rarely met a group as enthusiastic or as excited in terms of their profession.

I am especially pleased that we succeeded in increasing the funding to the Arts Council by 19% which, in all probability, is the largest increase provided to any agency in the State for 2004. It is my sincere wish that this funding will lead to an expansion of the arts. I hope those who were unfortunate to lose their jobs as a result of the cuts last year will regain employment. I look forward to working with the sector for its betterment in the coming year.

Mr. Stanton: Is the Minister satisfied that the funding is spread evenly and fairly throughout the country? Is he aware of problems in rural areas and areas outside the capital that consider they are not getting a fair share and will he address that issue?

Mr. O'Donoghue: The chairperson of the Arts Council, Olive Braiden, has indicated her intention to request all applicants for funding this year to come before the Arts Council at which point it will explain how funding is dispersed and discuss with applicants how best to advance their applications. In other words, the chairperson and the Arts Council have made it clear to applicants that they will be extremely transparent in the disbursal of funds. This is welcome. If there has been a disparity and if, as Deputy Stanton said, some negative discrimination, I hope it will be corrected in that context.

Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.

Adjournment Debate Matters.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 21 and the name of the Member in each case: (1) Deputy Andrews - to use the occasion of Ireland's Presidency of the European Union to renegotiate the "UK rebate" element of our contribution to the EU budget; (2) Deputy McGuinness - the urgent need to establish a trained unit and introduce legislation and protocol in line with best practice internationally to deal with the issue of missing people; (3) Deputy Crawford - the need for the Minister to intervene with the North Eastern Health Board where one third of the subvention beds were removed in January 2003; (4) Deputy O'Shea - the need for the Minister to control excessive prices for alcohol, soft drinks and food being charged by some pubs, clubs and restaurants; (5) Deputy Wall - the implications of the plans by the Minister to make changes to the prisons structure for the staff and prisoners of the Curragh Prison in County Kildare; (6) Deputy Michael Moynihan - to ask the Minister for Transport when the National Roads Authority will make a decision on the proposed route for the N20 bypass of Charleville town, County Cork; (7) Deputy Burton - the circumstances in which allocations of State funds to Punchestown Agricultural and Equestrian Event Centre were approved; and (8) Deputy Sargent - that an investigation under the auspices of the Oireachtas be undertaken to uncover all the facts relating to the bogslide at Derrybrien near Gort, County Galway, to ensure that all relevant lessons are taken on board on how to apply for permission for a wind energy development, that the precautionary principle be applied in determining the future for developments such as the quarrying and erection of 71 wind turbines now halted by Hibernian Wind Power, and that future growth of the sector be predicated on community involvement and a dividend for the community arising from wind power developments.

The matters raised by Deputies Andrews, Burton, Crawford and Wall have been selected for discussion.

Leaders' Questions.

Mr. Kenny: We now have three major reports on reform of the health system - Prospectus, Brennan and Hanly. On 15 October the Minister for Health and Children announced that the Government had endorsed the Hanly report as Government policy and would implement in full its recommendations. Last week the Minister for Defence openly defied the Government's decision not once, not twice but three times, like Peter in the Garden of Gethsemane.

Last week the Taoiseach qualified the Government's support for Hanly with obscure references to geographics and demographics. Last week's Estimates contained an 8% reduction in capital expenditure in the health services. This clearly means that the hospitals in the designated regions cannot expect significant improvements in 2004. Last weekend, following a massive demonstration in Ennis, the Taoiseach committed himself and the Government to consultation with local communities before Hanly is fully implemented, which he suggested would take about ten years.

Communities throughout the country and of whatever persuasion are fearful of services in their local hospitals being removed, downgraded or dismantled. They receive confusing and conflicting messages from the Taoiseach, as leader of the Government, and from members of the Cabinet who support the report in Dublin and oppose it in the country.

It is time we had clarity from the Head of Government on the status of the Hanly report. Is it now Government policy and is it to be implemented in full? How is it to be implemented if there is no money in the Estimates for 2004? Is the Taoiseach not aware that this is causing outrage throughout the country because of the genuine fears and concerns of thousands of people who fear their local service will be removed, dismantled and gone forever? Is the Hanly report Government policy and, if so, how will it be implemented? What is the Taoiseach doing about the comments from members of the Cabinet on the issue?

The Taoiseach: I am glad to say a few words one the issue. I would be glad if, when I say a few words, people would not endeavour to misrepresent them to try to gain political capital in local communities. The Government is willing, as has been stated by the Minister-----

Mr. Allen: I cannot hear the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach: The Government is willing to undertake a radical reform programme for the health service. Having spent considerable time on them, we have now produced three expert reports - Brennan, Prospectus and Hanly. These are comprehensive reports which were researched in recent years.

In all of these reports we are putting the patients first so they can receive the right treatment in the right place at the right time. Our commitment to health care is quite clear with increases of almost 200% since 1997. The Hanly report about which Deputy Kenny asked this afternoon will mean a better service for patients. It means a consultant-provided service that harnesses the contribution to all our hospitals enabling a wide range of appropriate services and procedures to be provided in local hospitals. It makes specific recommendations for two regions, for reorganising hospitals on the east coast and in the mid-west, and the reports set out the principles for the national organisation of hospital services. They propose measures to reduce doctors' hours and to improve medical education and training as part of the European working time directive. In pilot areas 300 meetings were held and 600 staff were consulted.

Mr. Sherlock: What about ordinary people?

An Ceann Comhairle: Please allow the Taoiseach to speak without interruption.

Mr. Kenny: Patients will die.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe: Consultation with Fianna Fáil.

The Taoiseach: I have stated time and again that project implementation groups will be set up in the two areas concluded in the model and that groups, individuals, community groups, professional groups will be able to make an input into those two project groups. That is in phase 1. In phase 2, Mr. Hanly and his group are to look at other areas of the country. That work has not commenced yet. It will take place in the future but I do not the timescale on that. Local groups will also be able to make an input. All of this forms part of the overall health reform agenda for which everybody has been calling because everyone says that we have put in the staff, the resources and the capital programme but we also have to deal with the reform agenda. The hospital service executive group is being set up at present. A senior person and persons to form that group will be announced within days.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach's three minutes are up.

Mr. M. Higgins: Thank God for that blessed relief.

The Taoiseach: I will be brief. That group will drive the operation of this whether it be the Hanly, Prospectus or Brennan report. As set out in the report there will also be a hospital services office that will link directly to the Hanly report and there will be the steering group for the overall plan. These are the main elements and groups which will drive the agenda. For people who say that the Hanly report said this or that about different parts of the country, I emphasise that Hanly made his report on two areas. A project implementation group will be set up in those areas. Individuals, groups and communities in those areas will be allowed to report. Hanly has not moved on to stage 2, which is the rest of the country, and I hope that is clear.

Mr. Sherlock: It is a pity the Taoiseach was not in Ennis last week.

Mr. G. Mitchell: It is the banner county.

The Taoiseach: The Tánaiste was there yesterday and she told me all about it.

Mr. Kenny: The problem with the Taoiseach's reply is that one cannot believe anything from the mouth of this Government. There was the Prospectus report, the Brennan report, whose author complained twice about it not being implemented, and now the Hanly report and no money contained in the Estimates, if it is Government policy. I am glad to see that the Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith, is here because he said the people of north Tipperary should not be sacrificed on the altar of Hanly yet he is quite prepared to sacrifice Deputy Hoctor on the altar of Hanly. There is a distinct difference between the view of Deputy Hoctor and those of the Taoiseach and Deputy Michael Smith on this.

When one looks at the unit in Blanchardstown which is not opened, the community care facility in Birr for 90 beds costing €20 million which is not opened, the scandal of Mullingar hospital which is unfinished for the last seven years, one cannot believe what this Government says. If the Taoiseach qualifies the Hanly report by saying consultation in respect of geographics and demographics will take place, does that mean there will be an accident and emergency unit in Nenagh and Ennis hospitals after his Government has implemented the Hanly report? Does it mean that the qualifications of geographics and demographics are going to save the other hospitals around the country? When the people start to march this time they will be unstoppable. The Taoiseach should not take away from people a service to which they have grown accustomed. Given the state of the roads in many areas he should not put that burden or pressure on them or unfortunately tragedy will result. If the Government wants to put its money where its mouth is, let us see in the Estimates where the money will be for the super-regional facilities. The Taoiseach will have left politics in ten years, as he has often said, and Hanly will not have been implemented. Is it a dead duck or not and will geographics and demographics save Nenagh, Ennis and Portiuncula and all the other hospitals? That is what the people want to know.

Deputies: Hear, hear.

Mr. Allen: The Taoiseach should give a straight answer to a straight question.