Parliamentary Debates 1998
This Web site contains the text of the Parliamentary Debates  - unrevised (excluding Parliamentary Questions) as published on daily basis in 1998. Please note that the full text of the Parliamentary Debates - revised (including questions) for 1919 --- is now available on-line at: historical-debates.oireachtas.ie. The text of the current parliamentary debates 2004 --- is available at debates.oireachtas.ie. The main Oireachtas site is www.oireachtas.ie. See also Houses' Web Sites.

National Conference Centre.

14. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will make a statement on his failure to make a final decision regarding the national conference centre in view of his commitments to have reached a decision by now; and the implications, if any, for EU funding arising from the delay. [11457/98]

Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Dr. McDaid): The tender procedure for a national conference centre is being organised by Bord Fáilte under the direction of the independent management board for product development and is being conducted in full compliance with the EU Council Directive 93/37/EEC concerning the co-ordination of procedures for the award of public works contracts.

The full tender procedure notice was published in the Official Journal of the European Communities on 13 September 1997 and in the Irish media on 16 September. It invited applicants to submit requests to participate in the tender procedure by Monday, 20 October. Bord Fáilte received 12 responses within the deadline set for receipt of applications to tender. On 31 October 1997 invitation to tender documentation was dispatched by Bord Fáilte to seven qualified applicants, six of whom confirmed their intentions to submit full tenders before the deadline of 14 November. The closing deadline for receipt of tenders was 5 p.m. on Monday, 2 February.

Full tender submissions were received from five consortia and the Bord Fáilte led evaluation teams immediately commenced their assessment of these submissions. I understand that at the management board's meeting of 14 April 1998, the board considered these assessments and concluded that the tenders submitted were not such as to enable it to make a recommendation at that time.

The process has now proceeded to the negotiated procedure stage provided for in Article 7 of the Directive, to be conducted by an independent team of technical experts. The intention was that these experts will report to the board and provide it with the necessary technical advice to make a recommendation. As the House will be aware, one of the tenderers has sought a judicial review of the decision to go to negotiated procedure and as this is now sub judice I cannot comment further on this aspect.

As to procedures, the tender process is being organised by Bord Fáilte and the independent management board. Under the terms of the tourism operational programme, the agreement of the Government and the EU Commission on foot of a cost-benefit analysis conducted in accordance with Community law will be required in respect of any final selection. The final date for taking account of expenditure for projects assisted under the Operational Programme for Tourism 1994-1999 is 31 December 2000, as defined by Article 5 of Commission Decision C(94) 1972 of 29 July 1994, subject to paragraph 4.6.7 of the Community Support Framework 1994-1999 which states:

... at the request of the Member State, duly made before expiry of time limits and supported by information establishing the justification for such a change, the Commission services may extend the time limits by not more than one year. If the extension requested is for more than one year a formal Commission decision is required. No expenditure incurred after the end date, as extended where appropriate, may be taken into consideration for the grant of assistance from the Structural Funds.

Mr. Allen: This venture has the potential to become an expensive farce for the taxpayers. The term "judicial review" sets alarm bells ringing. The Bord Fáilte management board for product development rejected the recommendation of the 14 member evaluation team and the matter was sent to a third body for consideration. Did the Minister meet any of these groups or take any initiative to overcome this problem? Different groups are threatening legal action. The Minister instigated this by scrapping his predecessor's initiative which had almost come to a positive conclusion with the Commission. Does the Minister feel he has a responsibility to show some leadership in attempting to avoid what could become an expensive legal farce with the potential loss of £25 million of EU funds?

Dr. McDaid: The Deputy says that I scrapped the last competition. However, the competition was off the rails. The EU would have upheld the objection and the matter would have been finished. I did not meet any of the groups concerned because it is an independent assessment process and I cannot meet any of them.

I agree that it is becoming a legal farce. This was never going to be a case in which the opponents shook hands, swapped jerseys and wished each other well after the match, so to speak. There is always the potential for litigation in such processes. There appear to be many interests with plenty of money who can hire barristers as we might buy toys for our children. If there is enough ability to buy legal advice one can get the advice one desires. I have not interfered in this process in any way. I understand from the grapevine that there are six different legal opinions on this process. It goes to show that one can get the legal advice one requires.

The Deputy is right that there is a serious danger of losing the conference centre. There are fundamental questions that must be answered and which the report of the project management board has indicated to me. They must have answers. All those involved must meet the criteria. That will not be done through PR or media hype. The EU is the banker and has the final say. All the contenders must meet the objective criteria.

However, at this point we are in the courts. A conference centre could be a major asset to the economy. We are the only major city in Europe which does not have a conference centre, yet we are in the courts. I can do nothing about that. If the conference centre is lost because we are unable to meet the objective criteria then so be it, but let us not lose it in the courts.

Dr. McDaid: If I had met any of the groups concerned the conference centre would have been lost long since. The Deputy is aware that the criteria state that an independent board, in conjunction with Bord Fáilte, is responsible for the project. The Minister is outside that. Although the Deputy is aware of those matters he is making political points.

I have received a report from the product management board which indicates that there are fundamental questions to be answered because they are matters which will have to be accounted for to the EU. We have set up a negotiated procedure, for which Bord Fáilte is responsible, and I do not understand why any of the interests are afraid to avail of it to allow the matter to proceed. It is in line with the directive. Why are they afraid to meet and negotiate so that the conference centre will not be lost? Instead the matter has been taken to court. I understand the courts are closing on 29 May until 16 June, and I have to make a decision by 31 June. Let the parties come to the negotiating procedure instead of risking losing this, not on the playing field, but in court.

Mr. Allen: The Minister stated that certain questions have to be answered and that the management board for product development gave him a report setting out certain issues that have to be addressed. What are those issues?

Dr. McDaid: The issues are a matter for the management board. All the clients have been made aware of the procedures available. This is independent of my office. I am doing my best to ensure we get this conference centre. All this is a legal quagmire as a result of which this country is in danger of losing the conference centre. We grasped the nettle in relation to Luas. There is money available for the conference centre. We could lose the money relating to Luas, but perhaps we can redirect that. However, we will certainly lose the conference centre if common sense does not prevail.

Mr. Allen: If the Government grasps the nettle it will be doubly stung because we will have neither the Luas nor the conference centre. It is amazing that the Minister has a report but will not disclose what the issues are.

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a debate on the matter.

Dr. McDaid: To clarify the matter for the Deputy, the management board's report is for the EU Commission.

Mr. Allen: That is pure hogwash. This is going down the tubes, like the Luas.

Child Sexual Abuse.

16. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he has received the report of the inquiry into alleged sexual abuse in swimming; if he will publish the report in full; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11458/98]

Dr. McDaid: I have not yet received the report of the Murphy Inquiry into matters relating to child sexual abuse in swimming. An interim injunction has been obtained, the effect of which is preventing Dr Murphy temporarily from finalising his report. Dr. Murphy is seeking to have the injunction set aside as soon as possible and must await the outcome of these proceedings before he can finalise his report.

In relation to the publication of the report, I reiterate what I have already stated in the House that, when I have received Dr. Murphy's final report and given it initial consideration, I intend to make its findings public. However, a decision on publication of the full contents of his report cannot be made until it is received and all the implications of publication have been considered.

Mr. Allen: On 24 March, in response to a Dáil question raised by me, the Minister told us that the report would be available by the end of that month. It is now 13 May and we still do not have the report. The Minister has written confirming that he will publish the report but has not decided whether it will be published in full. If the report of the inquiry is not published in full it will be meaningless to the victims of the alleged abuse. In view of the long delays, will the Minister now lift the sanctions against our top athletes in the Irish Amateur Swimming Association, who are the only people currently penalised? These athletes are the innocent victims of the Minister's hamfisted sanctions. They are preparing for world class events and facing an uncertain future going into the summer months.

Dr. McDaid: The answer to the latter part of the Deputy's question is no. The matter is dealt with in Question No. 17.

The Murphy report was to have been published at the end of March. The Deputy will recall that at that time more people wanted to come forward to give evidence. The Deputy will agree that as many people as possible should be included in the report. There are now from 1,300 to 1,400 in this report, and Dr. Murphy has been working diligently to get it published. However, last Friday he was issued with an injunction to prevent him from completing the report and, as I was named as a co-respondent in the case, I cannot publish it either. When the report comes forward for publication I intend to publish as much of it as possible, taking into account its sensitivity, the sensitivities of the victims and the people involved. I intend to ensure that the report is seen by the victims, the IASA and the relevant people concerned. Taking all that into consideration, the report will be made public.

Mr. Allen: The Minister should not have made promises he could not keep or given commitments he could not fulfil. What timescale does the Minister now envisage for dealing with the legal injunction? Is the legal injunction against the completion of the report or against its publication? Finally I plead with the Minister not to penalise our athletes. They are the only people penalised by hamfisted sanctions against an association which came before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Tourism and Sport and Recreation and set out in detail what action they were taking to deal with the issue. I ask the Minister to lift those sanctions.

Dr. McDaid: The injunction is against the completion of the report. The report is practically complete but an injunction was issued at a late stage and, therefore, there is nothing I can do to expedite it. The witnesses coming forward were dealt with long ago and it was a matter of tightening up the report and of Dr. Murphy liaising with the people involved to ensure that the report was complete and had no flaws. I can do nothing, given the injunction. I am as anxious as the Deputy to see the report, but the injunction is against completion of the report and against giving it to me to publish. That in itself signals the type of report Dr. Murphy has undertaken. We are contesting the injunction. The case is for hearing next Monday but we might even have it contested before that.

Mr. Allen: I considered at the outset that the approach being taken by the Minister in relation to this inquiry was fatally flawed because of the terms of reference. The chickens are coming home to roost in no uncertain manner now. Last week we were told by the Taoiseach in the Dáil that the injunction hearing would take place last Monday. It was postponed for a further week.

Dr. McDaid: Like myself, the Deputy does not understand the court system.

Mr. Allen: Is the Minister determined to publish the report when he gets over the legal problem?

An Ceann Comhairle: The time for Priority Questions has expired. We must, therefore, take Questions Nos. 17 and 18 in ordinary time.

Funding for Swimmers.

17. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the interim funding measures, if any, he proposes to support Irish swimmers in view of continuing delays over the publication of the Murphy report into abuse in swimming; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11461/98]

The allegations made concerning procedures used in handling cases of child sexual abuse by the IASA are of such a serious nature that I consider any findings relating to them arising from the Murphy inquiry would need to be fully addressed by the association before the Government could have complete confidence in their suitability to act as a vehicle for funding for swimming. I am sure the Deputy shares my view that any doubts raised by the members of a body about its competence to provide a safe environment for younger members is a serious matter. It would be remiss of me to do anything that could be construed as facilitating the continuation of what is alleged to be a very unsatisfactory situation while such doubts remain.

As I stated before, the question of funding for the IASA will be considered by me on receipt of Dr. Murphy's report and after the association has presented its proposals for confronting any issues arising from the report, including, in particular, matters relating to a safe environment for its members. However, I indicated to the association my commitment that as soon as I had a chance to give initial consideration to Dr. Murphy's findings, I would meet it to discuss the immediate steps that might be taken to facilitate early consideration of restoring Government funding.

Mr. O'Shea: Does the Minister agree, bearing in mind what he described as a political quagmire, months will pass before the report is presented to the Government, then to the swimming body and a response is produced? At the end of the day athletes are suffering and the future of the association is at issue. It had five employees at the end of January and has only two now who are overworked. There is also a grave doubt over participation in international competition. Will the Minister produce a formula whereby interim funding can be provided to allow our many swimmers to take part in international competition?

Dr. McDaid: I will not go back on the decision I made as I am determined to withhold funding from the IASA. If I funded the IASA, and its elite swimmers, the victims would say the situation persists that persisted previously but just because a certain amount of time has elapsed the Minister continues to fund them. I am determined not to provide any funding until I receive the Murphy report and I am satisfied all young people involved with the association are in a safe environment.

The Deputy refers to those involved. Any association is made up of its members and it is up to them to ensure they put their house in order. The Deputy argued in the House a few months ago and agreed that until I received the report I would not have a governing body for swimming in which I could have confidence. I am not prepared to reintroduce funding for the reasons I outlined.

Mr. O'Shea: If the Minister is serious in his commitment to swimmers, a formula can be found and sufficient safeguards put in place to facilitate them. He is penalising the athletes. If he is so disposed, it is not beyond his ability or that of his officials to come up with a framework through which funding can be provided. This year's international athletes, who are totally innocent, should not be penalised, irrespective of others who may have to face guilt in this regard.

Dr. McDaid: Last week I announced a carding system for high performance athletes and it is probably the best in Europe. It provides for up to £24,000 in grants depending on one's rank in the world. That amount is only surpassed in the UK where £25,000 may be provided, but it is practically impossible to meet all the criteria to get that money. Germany has provision for £22,000 while New Zealand and Australia provide up to £10,000 and £15,000 respectively. Grants in Ireland are issued through the national governing body, the IASA. It currently does not meet the degree of confidence necessary as a result of what happened in the past and I am not prepared to go back. However, once the Murphy report is presented to me and I am satisfied it meets the criteria-----

Mr. Allen: That could be next year.

Dr. McDaid: I disagree with Deputy O'Shea that it could take months; it will probably take a few weeks if the injunction goes ahead. However, upon publication of the report I hope to be in a position to provide funding to the IASA. As an alternative in the interim, given that there will be no Exchequer funding, the association should seek funding through sponsorship or private support. I am determined to continue with the line I have pursued in the interest of swimming as a whole.

Mr. Allen: I am amazed by the Minister's remarks. On 24 March I raised this issue and the Minister used the same line. It appears from his earlier comments that the report could be delayed for a considerable time. As Hardy said to Laurel "That's another fine mess you got us into." The Minister has swimmers in a fine mess. I recently heard a top swimmer on a radio programme lamenting that she had an uncertain future because of the lack of funding. The innocent victims, our top swimmers, could be funded directly by the Irish sports council under the system to be implemented by the Minister, which I announced during my term in office. Under that system the Irish Sports Council could identify the athletes who need support and fund them directly. With goodwill, imagination and flexibility on the part of the Minister this could be easily done.

Everyone agrees there should be standards in organisations but we should not penalise innocent victims who are the athletes representing the country abroad and preparing for international competition. Will the Minister consider allowing the Irish sports council, which will soon be established as a statutory body, to fund athletes until such time as he and the IASA sort themselves out?

Dr. McDaid: Any association is made up of its members and it is up to them to put their house in order. There will be no Exchequer funding for the swimming association.

Mr. Allen: I am talking about members.

Dr. McDaid: The Deputy seems to have forgotten the victims and we will not provide Exchequer funding until the swimming association puts its house in order.

Mr. O'Shea: Is it true two affiliate bodies of the IASA, the Irish Schools Swimming Association and the Irish Water Polo Association, have had indications about their funding? How does the Minister square this with the fact that their parent body is not in receipt of funding? The Minister is disingenuous when he suggests that sponsorship could be forthcoming from the private sector against the background of the State not providing funding for the association. He can surely find some way to meet the needs of our young athletes competing in international competition.

Mr. Allen: Will the Minister break away from the advice of his officials and be more flexible when dealing with people who represent the country? We are talking about amateurs who train every day for many years. He should not let them be the victims of what is happening and his bungling.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy should ask a question.

Mr. Allen: Will the Minister use his imagination in this regard? What legal impediments prevent the Irish Sports Council from funding those athletes as individuals?

Dr. McDaid: I hope the Murphy report will be published shortly.

Mr. Allen: It is a case of Murphy's law.

Dr. McDaid: As soon as I receive that report, I will consider the Deputy's concerns. I will not do so now because Deputies seem to have had a change of heart. They have forgotten what they said in the House some months ago.

Mr. Allen: I said the same thing on 24 March.

Dr. McDaid: If this were occurring today, the Deputies would hold a different view. They used very different words in the Dáil some months ago from those they used today.

Mr. Allen: There is no variation between what I said today and what I said in regard to Question No. 28 on 24 March last. The record will show that my comments on this matter have been consistent.

Meetings with Bord Fáilte.

18. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the number of times he has formally met the chairman and directors of Bord Fáilte since taking offic; the dates on which these meetings took place; and the issues discussed at them. [11459/98]

Dr. McDaid: Since taking office I have been, and continue to be, in regular contact with the chairman and board of Bord Fáilte regarding a full range of issues on tourism policy. In this regard, like my predecessors, I do not restrict myself to the concept of formal meetings as I believe, with the board, it is what we do together, rather than the format of how we meet, that is important.

It is in the nature of such meetings that all matters raised are discussed on a confidential basis.

Mr. Allen: The Minister did not answer my question. He may have met the board members informally, but my question is specific. It asks him to state the number of times he formally met the chairman and directors of Bord Fáilte. Will he give me a straight answer to a straight question?

Dr. McDaid: I think I met the chairman 25 or 30 times. I met him four times this week and I think I am meeting him again this evening. I met the board on two separate occasions.

Mr. Allen: When?

Dr. McDaid: We had a meeting in Donegal in September or November. We meet members of the board at different times because they are members of a number of boards. I probably met each member of the board of Bord Fáilte at least 20 times.

Mr. Allen: It is astounding that in 12 months the Minister has formally met the board on only two occasions at a time when morale in Bord Fáilte is at an absolute low and there have been three resignations from the board. Does he consider there is a crisis in Bord Fáilte as we approach this year's tourism season and they are holding workshops in preparation for next year? Even though morale is low and the chief executive and two senior management personnel have resigned, the Minister has met the board only twice since taking office. Has he met it since the shock announcement of the three resignations and, if so, what was discussed?

Dr. McDaid: Morale could not be higher in the tourism industry.

Mr. Allen: I did not say the morale was low in the tourism industry, I said it was low in Bord Fáilte.

Dr. McDaid: A total of six million people will visit the country this year. The Tour de France will take place here in July. Inquiries from people who want to come here have increased by 37 per cent in the case of France, by 11 per cent in the case of Milan and by 70 per cent in the case of Scandinavian countries. Rather than morale being low and the industry being on its knees-----

Mr. Allen: I am talking about Bord Fáilte.

Dr. McDaid: -----the opposite is the case. The Deputy mentioned the Tour de France.

Mr. Allen: I did not.

Dr. McDaid: This is a unique event for us, but the GRA has decided to target it.

Mr. Allen: This is a red herring; I did not mention the Tour de France.

Mr. Flood: It is a serious matter.

Dr. McDaid: This event will occur on 12 July, a date for which the country has been known for other reasons. If a bus is burnt out anywhere in Northern Ireland, CNN and other television channels flash pictures of it across the world. A total of 950 million people, 1,000 journalists and 500 radio stations will focus on Ireland on 12 July this year. Let us show them something different. I hope the GRA will immediately withdraw its threat of action on that day because it is not in the national interest. The Tour de France is a huge bonus for us and, as it will take place on 12 July, let us show the world what this country is really like. The GRA should bear that in mind.

Mr. Allen: By his own admission, the Minister has met the board of Bord Fáilte only twice since becoming Minister. As he brought up the Tour de France, what discussions did he have with the board about the GRA's threat to disrupt the tour? What discussions did he have with the Minister for Defence on the plans to be put in place in the event of a Garda strike going ahead?

Is it correct that the director general of Bord Fáilte resigned, got his due entitlements but is on a three year consultancy earning £40,000 per annum? Did the Minister meet the board to discuss the report on this matter in a Sunday newspaper?

Dr. McDaid: I have not met the Ministers for Defence or Justice, Equality, and Law Reform in regard to the GRA action plan for the Tour de France. The matter has been discussed and we are extremely concerned about it. I appeal to the GRA, in the national interest, to note the date involved and refrain from action so that the world can see this country in a different light on 12 July this year. I appeal to it to say the Tour de France will not be affected.

I met members of Bord Fáilte on many occasions in the context of the various committees with which they are involved. The issue concerning the director general of Bord Fáilte is an internal matter for board. It does not involve me.

Mr. Allen: What mission statement did the Government give Bord Fáilte since taking office?

Dr. McDaid: I empathise with the Deputy on that matter. In terms of tourism, Border counties in the South have suffered equally, if not more, than those in the North. I have always maintained that the British Government responded to Northern businesses and re-established them right away, sometimes on an even better basis, so that they tended to flourish, whereas along the Border in the South we had ghost towns, not alone in the hotel and bed and breakfast sector but in other industries.

I am looking at this matter but it is difficult to arrange positive discrimination for a particular area. Perhaps we should examine how we could use INTERREG and the peace and reconciliation fund along the Border for this purpose. I agree there is a need to upgrade those facilities. We have marvellous people, scenery, lakes and fishing but when CNN and other channels showed burning buses on their screens no one wanted to come near us. The need to help tourism and bed and breakfast provides along the Border is one reason we should try to ensure an overwhelming "yes" vote because no one will benefit more from peace and reconciliation.

In response to Deputy Allen I have already prepared the plans for the years 2000 to 2006 in my Department. I am in discussions with industry representatives and have asked them to bring forward their plans. We will then try to ensure common ground because the success of the tourism industry has been built on the co-operation of the Department, Bord Fáilte, the unions and the private sector. It is a partnership between those four areas and we intend to keep it that way, working together on each other's ideas.

Mr. Allen: Has the Minister given a mission statement to Bord Fáilte?

Dr. McDaid: I have already indicated to Bord Fáilte my plans in different areas. The Deputy mentioned people resigning from Bord Fáilte but those who did were moving on to better jobs. They were well trained in Bord Fáilte and were offered lucrative positions elsewhere. We will have to address this issue in the semi-State sector because we will not be able to keep these people. We are losing to the private sector the people I call the Celtic tiger's most vivacious cubs.

Mr. Perry: I was delighted to hear the Minister's remarks on the Border counties. In light of the British Government's announcement this week that £350 million would be provided for Northern Ireland, I am relieved that money is to be put into INTERREG because that fund is depleted at present. Can the Minister assure this House that funding will be made available for bed and breakfast accommodation, which is crucially important?

Dr. McDaid: I am looking at that to see what can be worked out and whether it can be provided by direct funding or through an incentive scheme.

Duty Free Sales.

19. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the steps, if any, he is taking to prevent the abolition of duty free sales; the discussions, if any, he has had with his European counterparts on this issue; and, if so, where these discussions took place and with whom. [11272/98]

28. Mr. Belton asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the steps, if any, he is taking to prevent the abolition of duty free sales; the discussions, if any, he has had with his European counterparts on this issue; and, if so, where these discussions took place and with whom. [11278/98]

33. Mrs. Barnes asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the steps, if any, he is taking to prevent the abolition of duty free sales; the discussions, if any, he has had with his European counterparts on this issue; and, if so, where these discussions took place and with whom. [11275/98]

35. Mrs. Barnes asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the steps, if any, he is taking to prevent the abolition of duty free sales; the discussions, if any, he has had with his European counterparts on this issue; and, if so, where these discussions took place and with whom. [11274/98]

53. Mr. Belton asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the steps, if any, he is taking to prevent the abolition of duty free sales; the discussions, if any, he has had with his European counterparts on this issue; and, if so, where these discussions took place and with whom. [11277/98]

Dr. McDaid: I propose to take Questions Nos. 19, 28, 33, 35 and 38 together.

As this is a matter which will impact mainly on access transport operators and Aer Rianta it is primarily the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Public Enterprise. However, I assure the Deputy that the Government is using every opportunity to raise this issue at political level in appropriate EU fora and to suggest the need for further study by the European Commission of the implications of the abolition of intra-EU duty free. Given concerns about the possible impact of the proposed measure on the development of the tourism industry generally the Minister of State, Deputy Flood, raised the issue at the EU Tourism Council of Ministers meeting in Brussels on 26 November last year. On numerous occasions the Taoiseach and a number of my Ministerial colleagues have also been active in highlighting the importance of this matter. I understand the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, will raise the matter at the next ECOFIN meeting on 19 May.

Mr. Allen: The abolition of duty free sales will mean higher air and ferry fares into Ireland and will result in losses of £30 million to the Irish airlines, £9 million to Irish ferry operators, and £25 million to Aer Rianta. Costs will increase also. I am amazed the Minister has not made a personal initiative. The Minister of State raised the matter at a Council meeting last year but in view of the crisis now upon us, with its severe negative potential for tourism, I would have thought the Minister would have been more active with his European colleagues on this issue. I accept that the Minister for Finance will raise it on 19 May at an ECOFIN meeting but since it impacts directly on this Minister's area surely he should take a more vibrant involvement at European level. Has he any plans to take a personal initiative?

Dr. McDaid: The only meeting of Tourism Council of Ministers was attended by the Minister of State due to my inability to be there. We have tried to raise it on every single occasion. As I said, it is not directly a matter for myself but it is vitally important to the tourism industry. I remind the Deputy that while his Government was in power it was not raised at a single Council meeting, nor at any summit. It is ironic that the Deputy continues to bring up this question and to use it as a stick to beat us with, when his Government paid no attention to this while it was in power.

Mr. Allen: That is totally incorrect.

Dr. McDaid: I agree that there are serious implications for the tourism industry, including issues relating to access, the regional airports and employment. One of the first studies was carried out by the EU and a more recent one was done by KPMG, which was presented at the end of March. The Deputy may wish to examine that study, which lists numerous implications of the abolition of duty free and analyses the arguments for and against the move. We have continued to raise this matter in Europe and have said we feel further studies are required. The move was first agreed on the basis that there would be harmonisation of tax by this time but that has not happened. On the basis of a lack of information, due to insufficient study, and the fact that there has not been a harmonisation of taxes, we believe this matter deserves further consultation.

Mr. Perry: Duty free is essential, but if our worst fears are realised will the Minister consider the possibility of asking Aer Rianta to modify the structure of retail stores in airports because duty does not apply to much of the stock that is retailed, yet in terms of advertising it would appear that duty applies to all stock? That is a misunderstanding on the part of the customer and Aer Rianta has been somewhat compliant in that regard. From a tourism point of view, it would help matters if the Minister clearly identified the items to which duty applies in the retail stores.

Mr. Allen: As we are the only EU country without a land boundary with Europe, surely the Government could argue that an exception should be made in the case of Ireland. In response to the cheap shot from the Minister, it was the Taoiseach, then Minister for Finance, who got us into this mess in 1991 so the Minister should not try to shift the responsibility to the Opposition.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: A question please, Deputy.

Mr. Allen: The Minister is in Government now and he has the responsibility to protect the private interests of this country. I expect the Minister to give us a commitment that he will fight tooth and nail to win this argument which is important for tourism and the country generally and which has implications for jobs and excess costs.

Dr. McDaid: I want to put to rest once and for all the question of the Taoiseach agreeing to this proposal. The Deputy surprises me in that he is not aware of what happened at that time. He should know this was one of the crucial decisions taken at the time in the context of the Single Market.

Mr. Allen: We were sold down the Swanee.

Dr. McDaid: In 1992, rather than banning duty free sales from January 1993, as part of the harmonisation of taxes and the Single Market, the campaign which was led by several countries, including the Taoiseach on behalf of this country, managed to get an extension until 1 January 2000, which was a considerable improvement on what was then being proposed. That decision was taken as part of our joining the Single Market and on the basis that there would be harmonisation of taxes, which has not occurred. Studies require to be carried out on those issues and that is the reason we are continuing the fight.

The Deputy's point about Aer Rianta is a good one, but I am not the person to whom it should be directed. I could raise the matter with the Minister for Public Enterprise but perhaps the Deputy would put down a question to her because it is relevant and deserves a better answer than I might give today.

20. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation whether new applications are likely to be required of groups who have heretofore received partial funding or no funding from the proceeds of the national lottery in view of the review undertaken within his Department in relation to this funding; if he intends to change the criteria for qualification for grant aid under this heading; whether any change of policy will reflect the ongoing needs of voluntary groups as determined by previous guidelines or criteria; if he will ensure that future disbursement of funds will have due regard for the ongoing and increased needs in these areas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11310/98]

112. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation when he expects to be in a position to disburse moneys from the proceeds of the national lottery following the review undertaken by his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11544/98]

Dr. McDaid: I propose to take Questions Nos. 20 and 112 together.

Earlier this year I announced that I was initiating a comprehensive review by my Department of the operation of the sports capital programme. Before work began on the review, I arranged for an examination of all applications on hands at 11 February 1998 in the context of the 1998 round of grant allocations. I also announced that no further applications would be accepted by my Department under the existing sports capital programme after 11 February 1998. Following this examination, the 1998 round of grant allocations, under the sports capital programme, was announced on 8 April 1998 when approximately £5 million was allocated to new projects. All applicants, successful and unsuccessful, have now been notified of the outcome.

All outstanding funding allocated under the programme, including funding allocated in the 1998 round, will be paid subject to the terms and conditions already attaching to the schemes being met.

The review of the programme will be carried out over the next few months. When the review is completed, which I expect to be towards the end of 1998, details of the new schemes will be widely publicised and it will then be open to clubs and organisations to apply for funding under the new schemes. New applications will have to be made in all cases.

The review of the sports capital programme is one of a number of measures I have asked my Department to take, in the context of delivering on the priorities set out in the Government's An Action Programme for the Millennium, in relation to all the areas for which I have responsibility. While I cannot pre-empt the outcome of the review, I assure the Deputy that one of the issues it will examine will be the way lottery funding can best be targeted at the needs of disadvantaged areas and voluntary groups in line with Government policy on recognising the value of sport and leisure in fostering a sense of community in even the most deprived areas. The new criteria for qualification for funding under the revised sports capital schemes are likely, therefore, to have a strong focus on such needs.

Mr. Allen: I acknowledge the difficulties facing the Minister in view of the overwhelming demand for grants. This time last year there were approximately 1,300 for projects worth about £500 million, and grants applied for amounted to approximately £48 million. The Minister announced in February that he would launch a new scheme later in the year. Will the Minister fulfil commitments made by him and his party before the election that he would use a little imagination, as set out in the national plan for sport? Will he attempt to supplement Exchequer funding with private investment by way of tax covenants, tax breaks or rates remission as we have seen in the urban renewal and rural schemes? Does the Minister intend to offer incentives to the private sector to get involved in the development of facilities at national, regional and local level?

Dr. McDaid: My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Flood, will deal with that specific issue. We are pursuing that line with regard to offering incentives and bringing the private sector into line in co-operation with the public sector. For the Deputy's information, 1,423 applications were made and we gave out 235 grants totalling £4.95 million. The incentive in that document, with which I agree, is a good one which is being pursued by my colleague, Deputy Flood.

Mr. Allen: Will these incentives be incorporated in the next budget or Finance Bill? Will it happen that quickly?

Dr. McDaid: The matter has been discussed by the Cabinet subcommittee on social inclusion which meets on a monthly basis to deal with that area. I am prepared to listen to any suggestions the Deputy cares to bring forward.

Mr. Perry: Will the Minister consider ringfencing a portion of lottery funding in the area in which sales are generated? In the north west, approximately £50 million worth of sales is being generated by the lottery. Of the £212 million allocated, not one pound went to Sligo despite the fact that four to five major applications were submitted. The original concept of the lottery was to fund sport, and while we all welcome the opening of large centres throughout the country, even the smallest fund generates considerable wealth in remote areas. If that were matched with community initiatives, it would quadruple any grant that is allocated.

Mr. Rabbitte: Alternatively, bring back Ray MacSharry.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Before the Minister replies I will take a question from Deputy O'Shea.

Mr. O'Shea: I want the Minister to clarify a point. If an organisation was granted funding for a specific part of a development, which was completed by the time the funding was allocated, can money allocated before the closing date in February now be allocated to a further part of the same development?

Dr. McDaid: I forwarded to all Deputies a telephone number through which they can make inquiries. My understanding is that if funding was received for one stage of a particular development one would be entitled to continued funding. Perhaps the Deputy would get in touch with my Department, or I can get in touch with him regarding that matter, rather than take up the time of the House.

I am bringing forward a Sports Bill the objective of which will be to put sporting on a statutory basis. I would remind Deputy Allen that, at my behest, the Taoiseach said yesterday the Bill would be published in approximately four weeks. That would be our aim but I think it may take about eight weeks. When the Sports Bill is published those are issues I would be amenable to change. I have listened to reports on work already done by Deputy Allen in the whole area of sport. There should be a broad interest in this matter.

On the ring-fencing of national lottery funds to various counties, this is a matter which could be discussed but it is outside by remit. When I looked at the allocations on a per capita basis I found that County Sligo, thanks to the Deputy's predecessors, was in the top six of all grant allocations since l988. I was trying to level out the playing field a little better.

Mr. Perry: That was the swimming pool application.

Dr. McDaid: The No. 1 allocation belongs to the Deputy sitting beside Deputy Perry.

21. Proinsias De Rossa asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation when it is expected that the mid-term review of the URBAN operational programme will be completed; the work to date of the local development policy committee which he chairs; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11244/98]

Mr. Flood: The mid-term review of the URBAN Operational Programme is due to be completed by 3 June 1998.

The interdepartmental policy committee on local development was reconstituted under my chairmanship in October 1997. It has a mandate in relation to the overall co-ordination of Government policy on local development. All Departments, with the exceptions of the Departments of Foreign Affairs and Defence, are represented on the committee as well as three agencies - Area Development Management Limited, Combat Poverty Agency and FÁS. There have been five committee meetings to date. The main themes of the committee's discussions to date have related to reviewing interdepartmental and agency co-ordination in relation to local development initiatives, developing a co-ordinated approach to meeting the needs of the most deprived urban areas, and considering the future of local development programmes post-1999.

The committee has been mandated to oversee an integrated services project. The project, which will operate in four pilot areas seeks to develop new procedures to ensure a more focused and better co-ordinated response by the statutory authorities to the needs of committees with the greatest levels of disadvantage.

The committee is also considering the future of local development programmes post-1999, especially in the context of proposals for the closer integration of local development and local government systems. The committee has recently received presentations in this regard from area partnerships, Leader groups, county enterprise boards, local development liaison teams, the General Council of County Councils, the Association of Municipal Authorities of Ireland, the Donegal County Manager and the Dublin City Manager. These presentations have primarily focused on three related issues: co-ordinated delivery of State services to disadvantaged areas, the shape and content of local development programmes post-1999 and the administrative context of these programmes post-1999.

I report to the Cabinet Committee on Social Inclusion, Drugs and Local Development in relation to the work of the committee.

Mr. Rabbitte: What is causing the delay in distributing the funds under the URBAN programme? Will the Minister confirm figures I got at the Committee of Public Accounts last week to the effect that, although the decision was made in April l996 -£5 million to Ballymun-Finglas, £5 million to Tallaght-Clondalkin and £10 million to Cork northside - more than two years later only £0.7 million in Ballymun-Finglas, £0.5 million in Tallaght-Clondalkin and £0.2 million in Cork northside has been drawn down? What is the reason for this bureaucracy and interminable consultations in areas of greatest need? Is it not the case that the URBAN programme is supposed to target areas of greatest need? The Minister is aware, as I am, of very meritorious projects in our constituency, yet these moneys are waiting to be dispensed. Irrespective of the cause of the blockage the money cannot be distributed despite the existence of many meritorious projects.

Mr. Flood: The Deputy is correct in saying the drawdown of funds to these programmes has been slow. Obviously we are concerned about that matter. Progress in the early stage of the programme was slow. This was caused to some extent by the need for considerable local consultation and many of the major projects involved going through the whole planning process and lodging planning applications, all of which causes delays.

The report of the external evaluator on 3 June will help us identify areas that can be targeted in a more focused way to deal with the hold ups and may make recommendations as to how we can speed up the process on the drawdown of funds, which all of us are anxious should take place. We can make progress. I accept there has been a slowness in drawing down the funds. The report on 3 June will be of considerable help in this regard.

Mr. Rabbitte: Will the Minister politically drive this programme? I am aware that the bodies to which he has referred are participating in the decisions. These interminable consultations must end sometime. I ask him to personally drive this programme and to publish the mid-term review so that the evaluation can be debated. Will he comment on, for example, the Cosán project in west Tallaght, with which he is familiar, and whether it might be eligible for funding under this programme?

Mr. Flood: It would be my intention to have the evaluation report published and made available to Members who have a keen interest in this programme.

As I explained at a public meeting recently, the Cosán project, which the promoters propose to locate in the Jobstown area, fits in nicely with the Government's efforts to target social exclusion and disadvantage. Therefore it would have my personal support. I have indicated to the promoters that I am anxious to be of assistance and will seek to ensure, wherever possible, they will get resources, either through this programme or one or two other programmes with which the Deputy will be familiar, including the local drugs taskforce and the youth amenities and facilities fund. The particular project could be assisted through any of those three programmes. We will work together as a team in the area to ensure that happens.

Adjournment Debate Matters.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 21 and the name of the Member in each case: (1) Deputy Neville - the need to construct a classroom and toilets at Shountrade school, Adare, County Limerick; (2) Deputy Flanagan - the need to co-ordinate Government policy on swimming pools with particular reference to a priority plan to be introduced in respect of swimming pools in the midland counties which are not in close proximity to the coast; (3) Deputy Shortall - the need to urgently clarify the employment conditions of staff working in the child care area who are nominally employed by voluntary committees; (4) Deputy Finucane - the need to discuss the impending voluntary liquidation of a company (details supplied) which specialises in Christmas trees and the fact that as a result of the closure many Christmas tree growers will encounter severe financial loss; (5) Deputy Ulick Burke - the need to provide funding for the refurbishing of Kilrickle national school, Loughrea, County Galway, which is in need of urgent repair and does not meet the safety and health standards. (6) Deputy Michael D. Higgins - a bhfuil á dhéanamh ag an Aire chun cabhrú le 15 oibrithe i gcuideachta sa Ghaeltacht i nGaillimh atá ag cailliúint a bpostanna de bharr nach bhfuil maoiniú dóthanach á dhéanamh go díreach ar Theilifís na Gaeilge nó tríd an Údarás and (7) Deputy O'Sullivan - the urgent need for legislation to provide for post-adoption information and services.

The matters raised by Deputies Flanagan, Michael D. Higgins, Neville and Ulick Burke have been selected for discussion.