Area Based Partnerships.

37. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will make a statement on the future of area based partnerships; the strategy he has for minimising disruption to area based companies and their activities while the next national development plan is being formulated and agreed; and if the necessary funding will be available to ensure continuity for staff and projects. [19895/99]

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Mr. Flood): I propose to take Questions Nos. 37 and 38 together.

I confirm that work is well under way on the new national development plan, but in the absence of final Government decisions on content, it is not possible for me to give any figures on future funding for local development type activities. However, the Government is fully committed to the fundamentally important task of tackling social exclusion in deprived areas and ensuring that the overall objectives of current programmes remain a priority.

Each area partnership-ADM community group carries out its activities under a plan which is prepared by itself and approved by ADM. The current operational programme for local, urban and rural development requires that all commitments to funding actions under these plans are made by the end of 1999. Actual spend can continue until the end of 2001 to ensure the successful completion of the current programme.

The board of ADM has recently made allocations, including some recent extra allocation of ESF funds, to partnerships which should allow activities under current plans to continue into next year by which stage arrangements for implementation of the upcoming national development plan, including social inclusion measures, should be in place and operational. Therefore, the 2000 Estimates will reflect that position and include provision accordingly for area based partnerships and community groups.

While it is difficult to finalise a comprehensive strategy to oversee the transition from the old to the new national development plans until the details of new social inclusion measures have been agreed with the EU Commission, the Government will endeavour to ensure that any disruption is kept to a minimum.

Mr. Allen: Will the Minister guarantee that the 800 jobs in the 38 partnerships and the 400 jobs funded by the community employment scheme will be secured until such time as there is a final decision on the new national development plan in order to protect the motivation and commitment of those involved and ensure that the partnerships have the confidence and ability to maintain the premises that are rented and meet their other obligations? Will he make a clear-cut, unambiguous statement regarding ADM and Exchequer funding?

Mr. Flood: When we discussed this matter previously I undertook to meet representative organisations, including Planet and the chairs of the partnerships, which I did on 10 and 17 May 1999. We discussed the issues Deputies Allen and Moynihan-Cronin raised and I heard their concerns directly from them. In recent times I met the board of ADM to pursue these and other issues and I am pleased the board was able to confirm that it had allocated some additional funding, including that which had come to hand through the ESF funds, to the partnerships which will, according to ADM, allow the activities under the current plan to continue into next year.

I was also be able to inform ADM that the 2000 Estimates which we will, no doubt, consider in this House shortly, will include funding which will be part of the new national development plan in relation to the future funding of partnerships. I am satisfied that the partnerships will be able to continue into next year without interruption. Both partnerships and community groups have made a considerable contribution towards dealing with social inclusion issues. It is the Government's objective to ensure no difficulties arise. There will be some loss of individuals from partnerships who seek to further their career as they would be entitled to do in seeking alternative opportunities, particularly based on the very considerable experience they would have gained through their work with the partnerships.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: I appreciate what the Minister of State said. He will be aware that we are reaching a stage where the groups need specific answers. I ask him to assure us and the partnerships that the figure included in the Estimates for transition funds for the partnerships is adequate to cover their operation costs. Does the Minister agree that, given the delay in the publication of the national development plan and the subsequent delay in agreement in Brussels, it may well be early in 2001 before any operational programmes begin to be implemented? What is the Minister's opinion on that?

Mr. Flood: I assure the Deputy that my colleague, the Minister, Deputy McDaid, and I made a very strong and forceful presentation to the Minister for Finance who has responsibility for drawing together the national development plan. We are satisfied that we had some success in the manner in which we made our submission. I am happy that ADM is aware of the concerns of Members as regards funding and I am pleased it is able to support the views of Members through the additional allocation to carry on into next year. I will continue to monitor the situation carefully to ensure that any arrangements that are needed to ensure its smooth transit with the minimum of disruption will be put in place. I welcome the inclusion of moneys in the Estimates for this programme. It will have a positive impact on the drawing down of funding which might have been lacking in the previous programme.

Mr. Allen: Can I interpret the Minister of State's comments as saying to the partnerships, "Continue as you are at present and enter into commitments as regards the renting of premises and the appointment of staff", and the 38 partnerships with 800 full time staff can continue as they are until the national development plan is published and the funding becomes available? Is the Minister telling the partnerships to continue as they are?

Mr. Flood: They must be guided by the instructions they receive from ADM and they must respond to it. No decisions have been taken on the totality of future local development funding. The national development plan has not yet been put in place and further discussions must take place on many aspects of it, including social inclusion measures. I do not want to mislead anyone and say that the partnerships and community group support will be the same as it was in the previous plan. That clearly is not the case.

Mr. Flood: I do not give the authority to partnerships to enter into-----

Mr. Allen: The resources will be there.

Mr. Flood: As I have outlined, the resources have been provided by ADM with some additional resources to enable partnerships and community groups to continue with their work but they must abide by any strictures set down by ADM. That is the orderly way in which we manage the partnerships and community groups but I am satisfied that ADM has made considerable progress with regard to the funding to which the Deputy referred.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: Everyone is aware that the ADM has provided transitional funding but this does not let the Government off the hook. I want the Minister to give an assurance that there will be sufficient funding available to the partnerships to ensure a smooth transition, that the core activities of the partnerships will continue and that the base staff are kept in place. We cannot continually depend on the ADM to provide funding for the partnerships.

Mr. Flood: Additional funding has been provided to partnerships and community groups by ADM.

Mr. Allen: How much?

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: Can the Minister of State quantify it?

Mr. Flood: I am not in a position to quantify the amount.

Mr. Allen: That is the question.

Mr. Flood: We cannot assume that the partnership and community group structure as currently organised will continue exactly as it is in the next programme. That would be to pre-empt negotiations with the social partners and those relevant aspects of the development plan. There will be changes. I have indicated to Planet and its representatives that there will be a change in terms of the partnership and community group structures.

Mr. Allen: How can the Minister of State give assurances if he cannot tell us how much it will be? Will it be £5, £10, £1,000 or £1 million? Have staff been told their contracts are terminating? Can the Minister confirm that?

Mr. Flood: I do not want to give a figure off the top of my head, but it is in the millions.

Mr. Allen: The Minister of State should have the figures.

Mr. Flood: It is certainly in the millions. It might amount to-----

Mr. Allen: Might.

Mr. Flood: -----close on £5 million. If the Deputy wants a specific sum I will provide him with that. He does not have to panic about it. I will make it-----

Mr. Allen: I am not panicking but that is the key factor.

Mr. Flood: -----available to the Deputy but I want to repeat-----

Mr. Allen: I'm not panicking. It is the staff who are panicking.

An Ceann Comhairle: Will the Deputy cease interrupting?

Mr. Flood: I will provide that information to the Deputy as requested. Change will be introduced in the partnership and the committee group structure as operated under the previous plan. I have already had discussions with Planet to inform them of that fact so it will not be identical to the previous programme.

An Ceann Comhairle: Question No. 39.

Mr. Allen: Will staff contracts be maintained? The Minister does not know.

Mr. Flood: I know very well.

Mr. Allen: Contracts will not be maintained.

National Conference Centre.

39. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will make a statement on the development of the national conference centre. [19896/99]

Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Dr. McDaid): The Operational Programme for Tourism, 1994-99, includes provision for 33 million ecu - approximately £26 million - in ERDF grant aid for the construction of a conference centre in Dublin capable of handling up to 2,000 delegates.

Following the failure of processes in 1995 and 1996 to secure an appropriate proposal, a new tender procedure, organised by Bord Fáilte, under the direction of the independent Management Board for Product Development, and conducted in accordance with EU Council Directive 93/37/EEC, was launched in September 1997. This process culminated in June 1998 in the selection of the proposal submitted by Spencer Dock International Convention Centre Ltd., to go forward for ERDF grant aid to develop the Conference Centre at a site in Dublin's Docklands.

In September 1998, the Government agreed to making a submission to the European Commission recommending formal approval for a 33 million ecu ERDF grant towards the cost of developing the project. The Commission's approval, in principle, for the grant was received in April 1999.

Since then, and following consultations between the developer and Bord Fáilte, I have been in correspondence with the Commission about how the construction schedule for the project can be accommodated within the various operational programme and CSF deadlines. Final contractual details from the developers are now urgently awaited by the Commission so that they can finalise their consideration of the case for extension of permissible time limits for grant drawdown.

Bord Fáilte is continuing negotiations with the developers with a view to finalising agreement on the necessary contracts by 15 October. With only a couple of months left to the end of the current CSF, including deadlines for commitments under the Operational Programme for Tourism, every effort is being made to have the required contractual details with the Commission for their consideration as soon as possible.

Mr. Allen: Is the Minister as confident now as he was six months ago that the national conference centre will go ahead? Is the proposal to build the centre dependent on other projects going ahead on the same site which are part of the appeal to An Bord Pleanála? When does the Minister expect to have a commencement and finalisation date for the project?

Dr. McDaid: My commitment to this project remains as strong as ever. We are totally committed to the national conference centre going ahead. This project is now at a very delicate stage and it is a sensitive issue. We now have a date, 15 October, and contractual documents have to be signed by that date, depending on whether the developers want to go ahead and sign them. I have to admit, however, that this is a delicate situation. This project was always dependent on tax and other issues. They were always a matter for debate. A contract remains to be signed by Bord Fáilte and the developers. In addition, the Government and the European Union must agree because the Commission requires the developers to at least have sight of a contract between them and the construction company that would be legally binding to allow us get the required extension for the drawdown of the EU funds, but this matter is at a delicate stage.

Mr. Allen: The Minister scrapped a stand alone project in Ballsbridge. He is now telling us that the proposal he accepted in 1998 was dependent on other events taking place, and the project may now fall or stand on these events. He tells us a contract may or may not be signed in two days. Surely the House is entitled to know the facts as the Minister currently sees them. Is he confident that a contract will be signed in two days' time or is this project now wholly dependent on other events happening and the outcome of a Bord Pleanála hearing? Is this whole issue now an awful mess?

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin: What about the money?

An Ceann Comhairle: These are priority questions.

Dr. McDaid: This project was open to a tender process and it was decided independently. I did not make any decisions on the location of the national conference centre.

Mr. Allen: You are the Minister.

Dr. McDaid: I brought it back on track and secured the £26 million grant.

Mr. Allen: It is not secured. It is on a wing and a prayer.

Dr. McDaid: It was not up to me in the first instance to do that. We secured it with regard to our Department.

Mr. S. Ryan: Subject to the EU.

Mr. Allen: It is not secured.

Dr. McDaid: It was always a matter of it going out to tender and the tender process indicated that the Spencer Dock company should get the contract.

National Sports Stadium.

40. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation his views on the development of a national sports stadium. [19897/99]

Dr. McDaid: On 13 October 1998, the Government agreed to the commissioning of a feasibility study for the development of a national stadium, and to the establishment of a stadium steering committee to conduct the feasibility study and to make recommendations based on the findings of the study.

The steering committee is chaired by Mr. Dermot Keogh and includes representatives from major sporting organisations, including the FAI, the GAA and the IRFU as well as representatives from the private sector and a number of Government Departments. Through this process, the major sporting organisations are in a position to bring their own perspectives to bear.

Following a tendering process carried out under EU procurement directives and Government contracts procedures, a consortium of consultants led by PricewaterhouseCoopers was appointed to conduct the feasibility study. The study examined a range of issues relevant to the feasibility of developing and operating an 80,000 seat stadium, including the economic, social and other benefits that can be expected to be derived, analysed the potential demand for use of the facilities from various sporting, entertainment and other commercial categories and possible locations for the stadium.

I understand the feasibility study has recently been completed and has been presented to the Stadium Steering Committee and that it will be brought to Government for consideration and decision at an early date.

Mr. Allen: This matter was the subject of a number of questions put to the Taoiseach earlier today by my party leader, Deputy John Bruton. I am amazed that 11 teams of consultants were hired at a cost of £400,000 to prepare this report at a time when the FAI is going ahead with its stadium and Croke Park is continuing with its project. I want to ask the Minister about the offer, bribe or threat made to the FAI that he would make £11 million available if it withdrew its proposal for the stadium in Dublin west. Will he consider scrapping his madcap idea of providing a £200 million white elephant in Abbotstown and making those resources available to the national bodies for local and regional development of sports infrastructure? What is the status of the offer - which I classify as a threat - that they will get the money if they back down, but that they will not get the money if they do not?

Dr. McDaid: I suppose the Deputy is feeling the heat from the previous Administration's lack of commitment to sport. There has never been, in the history of the State-----

Mr. Allen: Answer the question.

Mr. S. Ryan: Answer the question.

Dr. McDaid: -----the political will to go ahead with major sporting infrastructure. We are not afraid to undertake studies which will ensure that taxpayers' money is well spent.

Mr. Allen: The Minister will be known as the Minister for studies and consultants' reports.

Dr. McDaid: As regards the issue of the £11 million bribe, I met a deputation from the FAI. I love soccer, just as I love all other sports, as does the Deputy. We are very fortunate that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance also love sport. I will explain the situation to the Deputy. Many of us would agree that our national soccer infrastructure is in quite a dilapidated condition. In other countries one sees families bringing children to matches on Sundays. I would love to see that happening in this country, where people could spend a day at a soccer match, just as it used to be. Unfortunately, however, the national infrastructure is very dilapidated. I want to expedite change in that area as soon as possible.

When I met the FAI, it gave me a list which included a requirement of £11 million to bring a number of clubs - perhaps ten - up to standard. A total of £14 million was given out this year. We estimated that to get our soccer clubs up to standard would possibly take 20 years. I told soccer clubs that we are going ahead with the national stadium and that we also need to bring this up to standard. In other words, I more or less asked them which they would prioritise. I said I would prioritise the national infrastructure - I have no hesitation in saying that. However, that does not stop me from continuing to give as much money as I can to the FAI clubs, as I did with Bohemians, Shelbourne, St. Pat's and others.

There is no point in people trying to drive a wedge between me and my friends in the FAI, because it will not rub off. I have very good friends in the FAI. I will take this opportunity to say how desperately Tony O'Neill, who passed away last week, will be missed.

Mr. S. Ryan: Hear, hear.

Dr. McDaid: He was another very good friend of mine. On any occasion I can, I have discussions with my colleagues in the FAI. The Government will continue to try to provide an up-to-date state-of-the-art infrastructure for sports, whether at local, national or international level.

Mr. S. Ryan: After that speech-----

An Ceann Comhairle: We must move on to Question No. 41. The time for Question No. 40 has been exhausted.

Mr. Allen: The Minister used up all the time.

Tourism Industry.

41. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the plans, if any, to radically improve performance of tourism in rural areas, particularly the north-west and the Border region; and the reason for the poor performance of the United Kingdom market in July and August 1999. [20060/99]

Dr. McDaid: While growth in tourism over the past ten years has been unprecedented - visitor numbers to Ireland have doubled to 5.7 million and foreign exchange earnings have tripled to £2.3 billion - there is still scope for further expansion in tourism revenue and employment in all regions, including the Border region.

Mr. Allen: On a point of order, there are guidelines. We got a set of rules for Question Time which set out the time allocations for questions and responses. I asked a simple, straightforward, short supplementary question and the Minister used up the rest of the time waffling-----

Mr. S. Ryan: It was a filibuster.

Mr. Allen: -----and filibustering. He even drew down the memories of the dead. As a result, I could ask no further supplementary.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is not a point of order.

Mr. Allen: I deserve the protection of the Chair or extra time.

Mr. S. Ryan: We will play four minutes extra time.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy does not need any protection from the Chair. The Chair applies the rules as laid down by the House.

Dr. McDaid: I gave the Deputy the proper answer. That is why he is trying to-----

Mr. Allen: The Minister filibustered. I asked if it was a threat or a bribe.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister must continue to reply to Question No. 41. The Deputy should not be disorderly.

Dr. McDaid: The Deputy finds it difficult because I answered the question.

An Ceann Comhairle: We are on Question No. 41. Will the Minister continue?

(Interruptions).

Dr. McDaid: The Border region has received tourism support over the past five years from a range of programmes, including the tourism operational programme 1994-99, the Northern Ireland-Ireland INTERREG II Programme, the special support programme for peace and reconciliation and, of course, the International Fund for Ireland. It is estimated that well over £130 million in grant assistance has gone into tourism development in the region from those sources since 1994.

My strategy for tourism development under the national development plan will be based on the needs of areas, having regard to whether an area is a developed, developing or undeveloped tourism area. The key national objective for tourism product development will be to provide an appropriate product base capable of supporting sustainable tourism development through enhancing or building up an interesting mix of tourism products, especially in developing and still underdeveloped tourist areas such as the Border region.

As more detail emerges regarding future Community initiatives for the Border region, I look forward to continuing EU support for tourism development. Meanwhile, I received the report of the Donegal Task Force in July and, as I stated recently, I will be having the priorities identified in the report considered by my Department in the context of the drafting of its input into the operational programme for the Border, midland and western regions in the next national development plan.

According to the latest official figures issued by the CSO, there was strong growth in visitor numbers from Britain in the first six months of the year, with an increase of over 10 per cent to 1.6 million. As yet, the CSO has not provided any indication of the performance of the British market in July and August. However, I understand from Bord Fáilte that information from the carrier companies and Aer Rianta for the months referred to by the Deputy indicate a decrease in cross-channel arrivals of 3.2 per cent in July and 3.4 per cent in August, when compared to the same periods in 1998. In both cases, modest increases in air traffic - 3.3 per cent and 2.9 per cent respectively - were offset by decreases in arrivals by sea of 10.7 per cent and 11.1 per cent.

It is too early to identify with any degree of confidence the reasons for the decline in visitor numbers in the months in question or whether it represents a departure from the general growth pattern of recent years. However, I understand that Bord Fáilte is of the view that it may be linked to increases in fares and strikes or malfunctions of ferries. Bord Fáilte is monitoring the situation carefully and I expect to have a clearer picture by the end of the year. In the meantime, however, Bord Fáilte is confident that the forecast growth of 8 per cent in overall visitor numbers from Britain this year will be achieved. Access capacity between Britain and Ireland has never been better and, by offering a high quality, competitively priced product, we can ensure that Ireland remains an attractive destination for British visitors.

Mr. Perry: I am still somewhat in the dark after that reply. Does the Minister have any plans to address the serious downturn of 12 per cent in cross-channel sea arrivals in July and August? There have been indications that the increase in ferry charges to compensate for the loss of duty free could be one of the main reasons for the huge downturn in traffic. Has the Minister any plans to seek EU funds as compensation for the loss of tourism revenue if there is evidence that such loss was directly linked to the termination of duty free sales? What plans has the Minister to address the serious concerns expressed by hoteliers, particularly in the Sligo and Border county regions, about the huge investment in that area by private investors to generate business? The Minister mentioned the downturn was as a result of strikes and the non-functioning of ferries. Perhaps he could explain that further. It is a worrying sign that there is a 12 per cent reduction in the number of ferry passengers coming into Ireland. Many people who arrive by ferry travel on to the west and spend considerable amounts of money in the region. If they arrive in Dublin by air, they may not travel to the west.

Dr. McDaid: I agree that we must monitor the situation given that there was a dip in July and August, but I hope this is due to the fact there were strikes and malfunctions on a particular ferry which caused disruption. We will monitor the situation. It could be a trend. This is a business in which trends develop. We will monitor that over the coming months.

I will not provide funds to make up for any shortfall. This is a competitive business. I understand hoteliers in the Border and Sligo regions may have had a leaner season than usual. That is acceptable. However, the Deputy must understand the situation which prevails at the moment. Border counties, especially the Deputy's and my own, would have for many years benefited from tourists from Northern Ireland. With the current exchange rate between the pound sterling and the punt, people from the North have told me they can, with £800, get a very good holiday abroad here because £800 sterling is worth about IR£1,000. People must understand the situation with the exchange rate. People from the North are taking the opportunity of coming to the Republic to book a holiday abroad. Some of them have also told me that, when they come back, they can also fill up with petrol here. All these factors must be taken into account.

That does not get away from the fact that hotels and people involved in tourism in the Border and western areas must be competitive. One can see at the back of The Irish Times or the Irish Independent weekends being offered in Dublin for £29 or £39 per head. That is competitive. There is competition not only from abroad but also from within, and the people in the Border and Western areas will have to be equally as competitive if they are to gain a share of that market.

Mr. Perry: Will the Minister comment on the Tánaiste's announcement last week that she advocates the promotion of Shannon as a stopover and that she hopes numbers coming into the airport will reach 750,000? That would be of huge benefit for tourism in the western region.

Dr. McDaid: The Government is committed to developing the country to spread economic growth. We are all committed to that. Even the Deputy, if he were in Government, would be committed to that. The Tánaiste is focusing, through IDA Ireland, on developing other regions besides the east coast, and I applaud her for that.